Dear Unity,

My whole point to you is that, if it were not for sin, none of these commandments about days, and sabbaths, and so forth would have ever been given.

If you focus on the relationship that God had with Adam, you will see that Adam and God talked and communed everyday. Adam didn't have any commandments about rituals, animal sacrifices, keeping sabbaths. Adam only had one commandment, don't eat from the tree in the center of the garden.

So my question to you is, why didn't God give Adam these commandments before He sinned? Why didn't Adam keep the sabbath with all its rules and laws about not touching this, or doing that?

I don't know who has a religious spirit. But DGS, I will respond with this. I do not in any way, shape, form or fashion blame God for my miscarriage. We live in a fallen world and things like that happen. It doesn't mean that God did it, but He allowed it. And through it came the opportunity to pray for a child of God and intercede for her little one.

And again, we live in a fallen world, so that's the deal with your question about Adam - Man had not sinned yet. But Man fell. The Messiah is even pointed out to Eve after the fall. God comforted Eve with a promise of Restoration, and Eve and all of God’s people after her looked forward to that Restoration in the Lord's promised one. Isaiah 53 is one of many Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah - that He would be the final blood atonement. But God knew this before the foundations of the earth and yes the Word says, "It pleased the Lord to bruise Him." God did not plan Jesus' human life, death and resurrection as He went. It was His eternal plan.

I really don't know what unity is talking about, and don't have time to go back and forth with someone who does not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, so I pretty much don't read your posts - unity. You are not a scriptural point of reference for me. I understand that there is Jewish thought that goes with reading the Torah scriptures - but even orthodox Jewish thought can be divided.

And yes, sometimes it is God's plan for us to suffer for His namesake. In John 21 Jesus says to Peter
18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go." 19 This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God.

The "another" Jesus is referring to is the Holy Spirit and note "by what death he (Peter) was to glorify God.” – this was God’s PLAN!

Another reference:
John 9
1 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him. 4 We must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." 6 As he said this, he spat on the ground and made clay of the spittle and anointed the man's eyes with the clay, 7 saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Silo'am" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing. 8 The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar, said, "Is not this the man who used to sit and beg?"

The "religious Pharisee" spirit is the opposite of which you speak. It's one that looks to fatten its pockets off of the poor with false prophecies of wealth and prosperities. Jesus spoke many times of such as these. The above scripture is a great example of that.

Also another good scripture is:

Matthew 23
1 Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. 4 They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, 7 and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men.

Who does this sound more like in this day and age? Ask yourself truthfully.

Another scripture about the “religious spirit” you speak

Mark 7
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

So, Pharisee spirits are the ones who spend a lot of time “looking good” to the world, but do not walk in the truth of God’s word. Pharisee Spirits are whitewashed tombstones. They might have a Bentley with spree-well spinners, the latest self help book on prosperity, and a House the size of Texas but on the inside they are dead. Not every wealthy Christian is like this and for those who have abundant wealth, may God bless them to be good stewards to further HIS Kingdom.
Amen.

Jadyn Karrah - Denounced Zeta, EVEN THOUGH i HAVE MY OWN STANCE ON GLO'S AND MASONRY,ETC i LOOK AT YOU AS BEING A VERY SMART PERSON WHO IS TRULY ON FIRE FOR THE LORD. YOU HAVE A LOT OF WISDOM, AND THE WISDOM THAT YOU HAVE IS NOT THAT KIND THAT COMES BY CHANCE. THE WISDOM THAT YOU HAVE IS THAT THAT COMES BY WAY OF EXPERIENCE AND INDULGING IN THE TRUE WORD OF GOD. NO TWO CHRISTIANS ARE GONNA ALWAYS SEE EYE TO EYE AND THIS SITE IS LIVING PROOF OF THAT,BUT YOU ARE SURELY MY SISTER IN CHRIST JESUS. NOW MY ACTIVITIES IN MY ORGANIZATION AND MY DESIRE TO PLEDGE OF COURSE ARE NOT PREDICATED ON THE COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE POST ON THIS SITE BUT I ADORE GETTING ON HERE READING THE GOOD CHRISTIAN THOUGHTS THAT ALL OF US HAVE SHARED WITH ONE ANOTHER.

DGS,

You are reading to far into my statements. I simply spoke about worshipping G-d on the sabbath. There is no need to take it beyond that. Because I do not want to turn this into a back and forth religious debate I will simply say that there is more to the garden of eden story that what you have read.

Forget sin forget redemption, my point was that the early xians still did not worship G-d on sunday. Whatever you believe and feel today as your reason to observe sunday worship, it is btwn you and G-d (just like a xian belonging to a glo), but just know that the early xians did not observe sunday as a day of worship. There were many xians who were murdered bc they refused to change the day of worship from saturday to sunday (these are historical facts).

That is all I was saying. You do what you want. I only brought the day of worship points up bc everyone wants to 'expose' glos but when it comes to 'exposing' things that occurred in xianity, everyone becomes defensive. Truth is truth. If an atheist says 1 plus 1 equals 2 that does not means it is a lie bc he is an atheist. If 1 plus 1 equals 2 it will always equal 2 irregardless of who is counting. This the same understanding I have applied to the xianity/glo debate. Mr. Hatchett and others have spoken about glos and I have spoken about xianity. History has kept an accurate record of the things I have spoken about. Many people in BGLOs say that their organizations were founded to help the black community. Mr. Hatchett will present an arguement that shows that even though that might be true, they are still of demonic origins and xians should leave those groups. I have said that even though xians are good people and wish to be right with G-d there are many pagan traditions and practices that were forced into their faith. Just as he says if a xian is going to be right with G-d , they need to leave glos, the same applies to those xians who are blindly observing pagan practices.

Anything that I have said beyond these points was to clarify my beliefs. In addition, there is no consensus within xianity on belonging to glos. One denomination says it is okay, another says it isn't, one pastor says its okay, another says it isn't. All groups use the exact same scriptures to prove their points. If belonging to glos was so wrong they way can't xianity as a whole agree on it? Well now one person will say that they are not going to speak against a particular pastor of a paticular denomination, but the bible states that it is wrong. But aren't they preaching and teaching out of the same bible? What knowledge is it that they have that allows them to say it is okay to belong to a glo as oppose to being against it? When the draw closer to the deeper issue. The deeper issue is that certain people feel that they are right and their interpretation of the text is the only interpretation. Anyone else who is not interpreting the text the way they do, is wrong.

There is a lot more I could say on the subject, but I do not want to belabor the whole issue.

DGS I understand your heart and your point and I appreciate your response.

Jadyn if you are to reach the world with the truth about j*s*s why not enter into discussions where you possibly could reach another person. Just bc I have challenged xian interpretations of scripture should not be where your discussion ends. You should be able to present j*s*s in other formats. All I have done was give the proper interpretation of various texts. If you are fluent in spanish and you know someone mistranslated a text from spanish to english, you would stand up and explain the proper interpretation of the text. That is all I have done. We were all created in the image of G-d therefore I am your brother. If you are convicted by what you believe and know that you have a relationship with G-d, then you know that G-d would not want you to give up anyone. You can pray that my eyes become opened just as I pray that your eyes become opened. You can pray how to better deliver the message just as I pray how to better deliver the message.

"Ok, to Min. Hatchett, if you belive that the Sabbath shouldn't be kept on any particular day, then why keep it on a Sunday? Also, let me ask you this...do you eat pork? Does your wife / daughter / sister / mother / any female family member wear make-up, jewelry?
Yes! And?

The Bible says that we should not eat "un-clean meats" (i.e. animals w/ a split hoof...pigs), But what did He say to Peter in Acts? He expounded on and abolished that law.

we should not adorn ourselves with gold and silver. THAT IS NOT ALL IT SAYS. READ A LITTLE CLOSER.

God made us in His image and his image is perfect; therefore, for us to wear all this make-up and jewelry would be like insulting God.
Let's think about that...."

There is nothing to consider here.

Evidence of things said contrary to the Word is enough fruit (bad) to dictate my position. I wait for you to answer with scripture, then prove how you wonderfully misinterpret it. Why do I resist quoting scripture? Because you twist it and turn it to your own destruction as your mentors do. II Peter 3:16 If you would go back and read what you write, you would be able to see that you are simply a PARROT. One thing that concerned me early on about greek Christians was and IS their inability to discern and confront the evils of their own organizations or just pass over it like it doesn't exist.
You don't wan't to call me and talk. You WF folks don't wan't real confrontation. You know why my posts aren't two pages long? You figure it out and give me the scripture.

Confront?

Hey Rev. Hatchett, my war is not with you but the Spirit of religion. I do not need to confront you like we got some personal beef. Neither of us can be swayed from our beliefs. I am only responding to you on this website so that others can see and understand the true meaning of the bible and not the religious interpretation that they have always known.
So calling you would only cause a bunch of useless arguing. You have already decided not to believe a word I say and you have already decided to disagree with me because of my pastor irregardless of the word.
If I thought for a second that we could actually go to the scriptures and allow the scriptures to settle any argument between us, I would call. But I know you have already decided not to or to just say I am misinterpreting the scriptures even though I am just taking it for what it says.

So my responses are for all the others who read this post so that they have an opportunity to hear the truth and then God can take it from there.

So, if Psalms 112 says that wealth and riches are in the house of the righteous, I believe it. If Isaiah 53 says that by his stripes I am healed, I believe that no matter what the doctor's report says.

So Rev, what does Psalm 112:3 mean to you?

How about Proverbs 10:22 "the blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich, and added no sorrow to it."

How about Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

Is this scripture true or not? Am I healed or am I sick?

Just tell me if the scripture is true or false. I don't want to hear quotes from WOF preachers or websites. All I want to know from you REV is true or false.

A STOP sign says STOP. Some people interpret that as slowing down. Rolling, looking both ways, make sure no one is looking, then take off.

But STOP means STOP. No motion. Still. No movement.

So what does Isaiah 53:5 mean? Healed. A little sickness, cancer, flu. What does it mean Rev? How can I misinterpret that? How many ways can you interpret healed?

What about Proverbs 13:22?

(22) A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

What is the wealth of the sinners? What type of inheritance does a man leave his grandchildren? How can this be misinterpreted? It says what it says.

So no, there is no need to call you Rev. It won't accomplish anything. But on here it will because people are reading these posts and they are sending me e-mails because they are reading the scripture for themselves and the scriptures cannot be denied. So I am not on here to attack you Rev or try to persuade you to believe that God is not the One stabbing His own children in the back with defeat, poverty, and sickness. I am hear for everyone else who are reading this post.
If only 1 out of 100 people who read this post get a revelation that God is good, and they don't have to put up with the devil anymore, I've done my job.

A man preached his heart out in the early 1900's and only one 16 year old boy got saved. He walked away from that meeting feeling like he didn't accomplish anything for God because only 1 person got saved. That name of that 16 year old boy was Billy Graham. A man who has lead millions to Christ.

So all God needs in one person to realize He's a good God and His wants the BEST for His children and that one person can be used by God to whip satan like he stole something.

I am only interested in confronting religion. I hate religion with every fiber of my being. The only thing I hate more than religion is satan, the father of religion.

Dear Unity,
I apologize for my e-mail to you earlier. I just read Jadyn response and realize it was her post that I was addressing not yours.

Now everyone reading this. I want you to look at what Jadyn Karrah (JK) said here. She unfortunately had a miscarriage but look at what she said:


JK wrote:
"I do not in any way, shape, form or fashion blame God for my miscarriage. We live in a fallen world and things like that happen. It doesn't mean that God did it, but

HE ALLOWED IT.

And through it came the opportunity to pray for a child of God and intercede for her little one. ""

This people is why I HATE religion. The bible did not teach her this, she was taught this by religion. Now I am not faulting her because if this is what she was taught, you won't know anything different.

Now I do not know JK. I am a complete stranger to her. Yet, if I saw a wolf coming for her, I would yell to the top of my lungs for her to run, hide, climb a tree. Anything to help her out. I'll look for something to pick up to hit the wolf with to protect her. Now I am a stranger and yet with my love, I would be willing to risk my own life to save her.

So now God, who LOVES HER more than her parents or anybody on the earth ever could.....and this God with all this love, even loving sinners.......would not do anything to help JK save her unborn child.

Do you know how much that HURTS God? When His own children believe that He would allow something like that to happen. God would rather we believe that He CAN'T save us than for us to believe He WON'T save us. But yet this is what satan has taught us trhough religion. That God allows bad things to happen to us to teach us something.

And again, I am not faulting JK. I use to believe this myself. I didn't know one thing about the bible but I knew with no doubt that God lets bad things happen to good people to teach them a lesson. And now after reading the whole bible I haven't found one scripture where God allowed bad things to happen to anyone except for Himself on the CROSS. And then He only allowed that to save US.

So then you may ask, why didn't God save the baby? Again, we are righteous people living in an unrighteous world. Satan is our adversary thanks to Adam sinning in the garden. Jesus did not come to stop satan from attacking us. He came to give us the power to defeat satan when he attacks.

But sometimes, and this even happen to the Apostles, where our hearing gets clogged and we miss God. And sometimes, that missing God will cause tragedies. God doesn't allow anything to happen to us. Everytime He sees the devourer coming, He gives us the instructions to overcome him. But we as humans, having not developed perfect hearing will sometimes not hear Him and end up in defeat. But it is not because God didn't warn us. It is not because God wants bad things to happen to us. It is because WE made a mistake.

But there is no need to feel guilty about it. It happens to all of us. Jesus was the only person who never missed God. Everyone else has. But when we miss God and tragedy happens, we can't look up to God and think well God must have let this happen.

No

We have to go to God and ask Him, where did I miss you? I know you spoke to me, was I distracted? And God will tell you exactly where your faith was lacking so you'll be ready next time. Remember Peter sinking in the water. Did Jesus let him sink to teach him a lesson? Of course not. He allowed the wind to distract him and he let his faith go. Peter allowed himself to sink, not Jesus.

When soldiers get wounded on the field. They come back, heal up, regroup, retrain, and then back on the field.

I have missed God plenty of times and ended up in trouble. But the good news is, God knows how to turn lemons into Lemonade. But God cannot help you if you believe that He will allow bad things to happen to you. You must believe that God has your back.

Look at the scriptures and then judge for yourself if I am misinterpreting them:

Mark 16:17 - 18

17And these signs shall follow THEM that BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, IT SHALL NOT HURT THEM; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Sometimes JK, it is not that we missed God. Sometimes in the battle against evil, satan attacks and we are just not ready for him. It doesn't mean we are bad people. Like I said, with the exception of Jesus, everyone in the bible has been caught off guard by satan. But that's okay as long as we prepare for next time. God has given His power to us. Whatever we BIND on earth will be BOUND in heaven and whatever we LOOSE on earth will be LOOSED in heaven. (Matthew 18:18) It is up to us now to bind satan. If we don't bind him then he will kill, steal, and destroy at will.

JK, I think it was either you or Unity that used Isaiah 53 to justify suffering. But what happens if we keep reading and look at the results of Jesus' suffering. Look....

Isaiah 54:14-17

(14) In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

-----> Look JK, if we establish ourselves in righteousness, terror won't come near us. This is the life of the saints that Jesus suffered so we could have.

(15) Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me:

----> Look JK, God says our enemies will gather against us but it won't be God causing it. So what is God going to do when our enemies gather against us? What is going to happen to those, who, are not just righteous or born again, but those saints who are actually established in the righteousness that Jesus purchased for us through His blood? ........

whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

(16) Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

(17) No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;

---> Oh, I see. So they will form the weapon. The doctors will says it doesn't look good. Like the Apsotle Paul we may be shipwrecked, stoned to death, beaten with stripes, left for dead.......but the formed weapon won't prosper because Paul overcame all that stuff. ..........

and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

----> Are you a servant JK? How about you Unity? Are you servants? What did God Promise his servants, those who are established, who know without a shadow of a doubt who they are and whose they are?

This is our heritage.

So I ask you, after reading those scriptures, am I a heretic for believing that Christians are suppose to have success and triumph over our enemies?

But what you are missing DGS is the fact that all done in the Bible was not meant for EVERYONE to do. God didnot allow the thorn in the flesh to be removed from Paul. He actually ALLOWED the messenger of SATAN to buffet Paul for POSSIBLE FUTURE mistakes. God allowed ADAM to be tested.

If you believe that by His stripes you are healed and you don't get healed, then how can you say you REALLY believe. You got sick because you missed God and can't get healed implies you are still missing God. So now you're in this search to seek out why you missed it. This is the kind of crap that leads to self-condemnation. This saying you are healed when you are not really healed is lying to yourself. Now I believe God for healing, but I know I am not healed until the sickness is gone. Like I tell my wife, if someone says that they have the gift of healing, when I go up there with my 105 degree temperature, I should leave with it being 98.6 degrees, not 104.9, not 103.2.

I will return to deal with you on Mark 16. If this scripture is true for ALL believers as it IMPLIES, then the APOSTOLICS are right about having to speak in tongues to be saved. Every believer that is snake-bitten has nothing to worry about. I'll tell you what, you better get that anti-venom. Pray God heals you in the meantime. If he heals you, praise Him. If you die, then I guess you will go to hell for not believing God to heal. I mean if you don't get your healing, according to you, we missed God at our dying hour. What then? Did you not get healed because you did not believe God?

Mark 16:16-18 is a very interesting set. Many use it to say that if you don't speak in tongues you CANNOT be saved. If you cannot do one of these things, then you cannot be a believer. But everyone needs to notice some things. PAUL was the only one to be bitten by a snake and live. Peter, John, Paul, Stephen & Philip (men who were pubicly anointed) given a TRUE apostolic anointing or became Apostolic LEGATES worked miracles. We do not see ONE, SINGLE, SOLITARY, UNAPPROVED (were not Apostles or had their hands laid on them by the Apostles to serve) BELIEVER performing miracles, getting bitten by snakes and living, casting out devils, etc. Not ONE LAY Christian. Now am I saying that God will never allow this to happen? NO! I am saying that our positions in leadership or discipleship are not AUTHENTICATED by signs, miracles and wonders. We are AUTHENTICATED by our faith in the Blod of Jesus, soul winning, holy living (a changed life), etc. Here comes the heat! If God chooses to use us FOR HIS GLORY, and perform a miracle, PRAISE HIM!

The new tongues in mark is in direct correlation to Acts 2:4 & I Corinthians 14:21. Tongues are not some form of gibberish. It is a natural language spoken by one who has never learned it before. The supernatural was not in the interpretation, but in the speaking. Tongues was not GIBBERISH, which is the stuff we here is churches today. People believe that just becasue an interpretation is needed that it has to be some unknown spirutal language. But God did not do like this at Pentecost. WHY NOT? If He had intended us to be speaking in some unmnown gibberish, then why did He not set that precedent with the Apostles and those with them.

Biblical history and early church history clearly dictate to us that certain gifts were not needed to AUTHNETICATE this new religion called Christianity and that the church's foundation was firmly settled. ALL future prophecies can be found in the Bible. History dictates that the APOSTOLIC AND PROPHETIC offices were closed and no longer necessary. The foundation of the church was settles. Ephesians 2:20

Now many of you are like so what, but I right this at the cost of losing many of my supporters. Am I concerned about this? Only for the reason that they continue in the false gospel of Word Faith and its appendages.

Again Rev. Hatchett,

I don't know what it is. I cannot be any clearer but it seems that you have already decided what I said before you even read what I posted. So instead of writing a lot since it seems that you are not comprehending what I said, I'll keep it short this time.

Whose faith healed the woman with the issue of blood, Rev? Was it her faith or Jesus' faith? Please read the scripture before you answer.

Yes, I know it was Jesus' power that healed her. I am not asking whose power healed her. I am asking whose faith healed her? There were a lot of people touching Jesus, so why did this woman's touch pull the power out of him?

For the record everyone, your salvation does not depend on your ability to cast our demons, heal the sick. Neither does your salvation depend on your prayers getting answered or speaking in tongues. The bible says your sole salvation depends on you believeing Jesus as Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. WOF preachers do not teach that so if you want to believe Rev. Hatchett, that is your choice. I know which denomination teaches that but since I am not sure if all of the people in that particular denomination teach it, I won't say who they are. (Romans 10:9-10) This scripture gives you everything you need for salvation!

Everything else, casting out demons, speaking in tongues, surviving snake bites, and etc.......

Well, go to every account of the woman with the issue of blood and see whose faith healed her. Was it Jesus faith or the woman's faith? Then you'll understand why some Christians have victory and some don't. But whether you miss God or not, as long as you know that Jesus is the One, only, and TRUE living God; even if you missed it and die, you will be saved. Only those who reject Christ go to hell.

Also Rev. Hatchett, what caused Peter to sink when he walked on water? Did Jesus allow him to sink or did Peter lose faith? Whose fault was it that Peter began to sink?

Okay everyone, notice that Rev. Hatchett refers to bible history instead of the bible. Look.....

Rev. Hatchett wrote:

"Biblical history and early church history clearly dictate to us that certain gifts were not needed to AUTHNETICATE this new religion called Christianity and that the church's foundation was firmly settled. ALL future prophecies can be found in the Bible. History dictates that the APOSTOLIC AND PROPHETIC offices were closed and no longer necessary. The foundation of the church was settles. Ephesians 2:20"

---->> Now to be fair, here is what Ephesians 2:20 says:

(20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

---> Notice no where in this scripture does it say that there are no more prophets and apostles. Do you know what Apostle means in the Greek? It simply means messenger. So Rev is saying that God has no more messengers in the earth.

----> Now forget what cementary, .....excuse me, I mean seminary school teaches and let's get back to the bible.

This is what the bible says in Ephesians 4:9-14;

FOCUS ON VERSUS 11 & 12 ---

9(Now that he (Jesus) ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

(11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

----> Why Rev. Hatchett? Why did Jesus give us Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers? Look at verse 12:

(12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

----> Now Rev, when is God going to take away verse 11? When is God going to take away these positions or offices of Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Teachers, and Pastors? Verse 13 tells us when........

(13) TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Now everyone reading this, has verse 13 and 14 come to pass yet? Have we all come to the unity of faith? Have we all come to being a perfect man to the stature and fullness of Jesus? Are all Christians so rooted in faith that they cannot be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine?

The answer is........no. This will not happen until we meet Jesus face to face.

Now, if you believe that this is already happened, then ask Rev. Hatchett why God only took away the positions of Apostles and Prophets and still left us Evangelist, Pastors, and teachers? Verse 13 specifically says these positions will not be taken away until the Body of Christ is One and we all have the stature and fullness of Christ.

So where is Rev getting that God took away Apostles and Prophets? He has failed to show me one scripture. I cannot even squeeze that from Ephe 2:20. I know Jesus and the 1st apostles started the church but the church is still being built. We still need messengers, prophets, apostles more now that we ever did. So how can the Rev say that apostles and prophets are no longer necessary?

Maybe he doesn't need one but the rest of the world does. But again, opinion versus scripture. Ask the Rev to specifically show in the scripture where it says that those positions are no longer necessary in today's world.

A few things:

Thanks AAB327, I pray that God continues to use the Christians on this site and that we eventually will have no divisions among us as I think Paul compelled the church. This will come as we humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord and allow Him to lift us up.

Unity, I in no way have given up on you - I just won't debate with you. May God bless you and give you THE GIFT that you won't have room to receive.

DGS, I am not religious, but your teachings (or the teaching that you are under) are religious and heretical. It is your teachings that leave God's people hopeless and helpless. I used to sit under a Pastor that taught that you didn't have enough faith if you didn't speak in tongues, or if you hit a financial hard spot. He was a flock fleecer like your mentors Benny Hinn, Hagen, Copeland, Price and Dollar. He is facing charges today. I guess his faith isn't big enough.

I thought about how I would respond to you DGS, but I just realized that I don't have to. Here is a link for anyone who wants to read the teachings of DGS' mentors and apologetics for the WOF and Prosperity movement http://www.smallings.com/Books/ProspENG.html

I have to admit that my flesh wants to defend myself just like Samuel, who cried out to the Lord. And the Lord responded that it wasn't important that Samuel was offended, but that the Lord was. So blessed be the name of the Lord who gives and takes away.

Once I was in a situation where I wanted to speak out against a wrongdoing. I had a dream on a Saturday that I was on the phone going off in the flesh and God placed a sword in the room above my head. I actually grabbed the sword and hit my lip with it. Then I cried, "Lord, that hurt - why did you do that." The next day I was put in a situation where I could have easily spoke up and the dream hit me. I grabbed a sister who was about to get righteously CRUNK and I took her to the prayer room. I told her of my vision and the revelation. The moral of the story is that although God knew what He wanted me to do, I had to follow through. That's why I hit my own mouth with the sword, it represented obedience.

Saints of God, I compel you to go to the prayer room, be still and pray - for this thread. Pray for God's understanding that unifies the body of Christ as each heart is humbled and willing to receive.

Amen

Ahhh, come on JK.

Don't go to the websites. Why can't we go to the word? Websites are not the word of God, the bible is.

So for anyone going to the website she just mentioned, feel free to e-mail me at mike_mike3@yahoo.com. I will go to the word and show you how everything on those websites is wrong.

Now, e-mail me if you believe the bible is the inerrant word of God. If you don't believe the bible, then you don't have to waste your time e-mailing me.

And JK, you can pray for the unity of all saints until your mouth is dry but until all Christians decide that the Word is the final authority, that unity will never happen. We can't be one with God if we think Satan is more powerful than Him or that satan is busy and God is just sitting down taking a dump.

Now I see that you got offended at what I said which prevented you from hearing what I said. I showed you scriptures but when offense comes up, scriptures go out the window and on here, websites come up.

You judged me as a heretic but didn't give me any scriptures to say why I am a heretic. Just because you don't have enough faith to speak in tongues doesn't mean you are a bad person. We all have to build up our faith. And it is NOT your fault that you don't have enough faith to speak in tongues. It is religions fault because religion told you that speaking in tongues past away with the so called "last" Apostle.
The only time a lack of faith is sad is when you won't even try to increase it by renewing your mind. It is almost like you can challenge people to get saved and live right but why can't you challenge them to increase their faith. That is all Jesus was doing when Peter began to sink, he told Peter his faith was small. But as we can see in the book of Acts, he eventually increased his faith.

So you can call me a heretic. But satan will continue to attack you and make you think you can do nothing about it and he will lie and say God is not going to help you. And that is going to leave you hopeless. Because if God won't help us fight, then how can we win? And what did Jesus die and live again for?

My thing is, why lose if there is a way to win.

DGS
I have done nothing but reply with scipture after scripture, which you have ignored repeatedly. I am not attacked as you stated. I am blessed beyond measure. I have the truth of God that resounds in my heart. The fruit is evident in my husband, my children, my brethren.

The website I noted is also full of scripture. Read it before you make blanket statements. I would not reference anything that does not uphold the WORD of God.

Be blessed.

Oh, and speaking in tongues is not a sign of faith according to the Word, but love is. It takes true faith to love unconditionally. Paul addresses speaking in tongues in great detail. I do and have spoken in real tongues according to the WORD, not all this witchcraft religious "huma-say huma, sah mu ma ku sa". A Word from God, DGS - seek HIS face and not HIS hand.

As for TONGUES-----
Take a good long hard study and you will find out that #1- unknown WAS ASSUMED and inserted by the translators because Paul used the word interpretation. This addition is what makes people assume it is some unknown "GIBBERISH". The strongest evidence that will support any scripture is a reference to the OLD TESTAMENT. If you want to really know that a tongue IS NOT the "GIBBERISH" you hear in churches today, read I Corinthians 14:21 when Paul references Isaiah. NOW DGS, I will let you try and twist this one before I give the real meaning of it. Then you have all of these churches where WHOLE congregations are speaking in tongues. RULE BROKEN!!!!!

About healing!---- The man laid at the Gate called Beautiful was just asking for money, but what happened in spite of his faith?

As for Apostles---- And "Apostolos" is used for Apostles and in some cases messengers. By reading the text and knowing the qualifications of an Apostle of Christ makes it easy to distinguish between an Apostle and an Apostolic Legate or "Apostello".

You have said alot DGS, but you have not proved ANYTHING. You have still not SHOWN anyone in the BIBLE where GOD AUTHENTICATED anyone to perform miracles that was not an Apostle or one who had not had hands laid on them by the Apostles. But they can read the whole New Testament and see that what I am saying is true. They can read literature from the early church fathers and find out that Biblical and Secular history prove what I am saying to be so. If you look at the N.T. alone you see a regression of miracles performed. YOU DO NOT SEE A WHOLE NEW SET OF APOSTLES BEING ESABLISHED. You do see Pastors/Bishops

(in speaking of Word Faith, what are the qualifications for a Bishop/Pastor?)

and elders, evangelists and teachers, miracles, etc. BUT NOT THE OFFICES OF APOSTLE and PROPHET All you have done is the typical WORD FAITH "run around". Even that cemetary/seminary remark is typical Word Faith lingo.

No DGS! People need to go to the websites, see what these bozos are saying and then SEARCH the scriptures to see that what they are syaing is a lie.

I am a Christos Apostolos, but I am not an Apostolos.

Alot of people have been scratching their ears, while their hearing continues to become dull.

You KNOW why I know ao much about Word Faith, because I "ALMOST" became Word Faith. Now I would not have such a problem with Word Faith, But when you have these men and women saying that Jesus was not FULLY God and man and that he had to go to GEHENNA to SUFFER. That's where I draw the line. I will quote a few of these preachers in my next post.

"When Jesus said on the cross, “It is finished,” He was referring to the Abrahamic covenant....Jesus entered hell with nothing more than His covenant with God...He took back the keys to death, hell and the grave."xxxx


"He went to hell in our place. For untold agony, Jesus, went through in the bottom of the pit. Hell, itself, paid the penalty that you and I deserve. On that third day, I believe there was party going on in hell. They thought they had him; they thought they had the Holy One. I believe they were all there, taunting Jesus; but then, Jesus in the pit of hell, the Father said, it's enough. The claims of justice has been satisfied."xxxxx

"Jesus didn’t come as God, He came as a man."xxxxxx

"After entering hell and being there for three days, Jesus became born again....Jesus was the first born-again man...Jesus died spiritually for every man so that sinners could be redeemed from spiritual death...Jesus stepped out of life and tasted spiritual death." xxxxx

“When His blood poured out it did not atone”. Xxxxx

"Not only did Jesus pass the test Adam failed, but He also paid the price for Adam's treason---He made Himself obedient unto death, paid the price in the punishment of hell for Adam's sin...In His victory over death, Jesus became the first born-again man of many who would be born in the image of God."xxxxxx

"What [Why] does God have to pay the price for this thing? He has to have a man that is like the first one. It's got to be a man. He's got to be all man. He cannot be a God and come storming in here with attributes and dignities that are not common to man. He can't do that. It's not legal."xxxxx

"Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God."xxxxxx

"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell."xxxxx

These despicable quotes are just the beginning. Once this site goes private, IT'S ON!!!!!
These quotes were from 1979-2005
These quotes are not taken out of context. They either meant this or they did not. When their critics CONFRONT them, they DO NOT DENY IT. Rather they spew curses on their them and their families that NEVER CAME TO PASS. (FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!!!)

Dear JK,

Faith works by love. Love is the root to faith. In your original post you made it sound like you did not speak in tongues and that your preacher was wrong for telling you that you didn't have enough faith. Then you mentioned that he was in some kind of trouble. But I didn't see how him making a mistake, if he made one, has anything to do with him challenging you to increase your faith.

But since you do speak in tongues, how did you come about that? Did someone teach you about speaking in tongues? Did you read it in the bible? Were you just walking along one day and oops, you started speaking? No, someone preached it to you or you read it in the bible yourself. At some point you believed that God could get on your tongue and allow a beautiful language to flow out of you. At the point where you believed and it was followed by a corresponding action (opening your mouth and speaking) you released your faith. Obviously you didn't believe speaking in tongues when you first read it or heard about it but at some point you must have increased your faith.

That is all I was saying. I fought speaking in tongues for 6-months because I couldn't figure out in my mind how that was possible. But after hearing it taught, hearing it, reading it in the word, I got to a point where I was more convinced that God could anoint me than I was that it was impossible.

So we all go through this, just like Peter. But it seems as if you were mad at your Pastor or preacher because he challenged you to increase your faith. How many times did Jesus tell someone their faith was small? It would be one thing if he said you were going to hell, that isn't biblical. But if all he said was that your faith was small and you should increase it, then it is no different than a coach telling an athlete he needs to run more to build up his endurance.

I know you have come at me with scriptures. I actually complimented you on that because as you can see all Rev. Hatchett has is quotes (look above). I was saying that when you called me a heretic, what was your scripture reference for that? If you have compared what I wrote to the word and the word has judged what I wrote as heresy, please share the scripture so that others can read the scripture and then compare it with my previous posts to see if what I said was heretical.
I said a lot. Please point out exactly what I said that was heresy.

Also you mentioned the websites have scriptures. I have studied these websites exclusively. I have went to every scripture they have referenced and I noticed that there were a lot of scriptures they did not mention like Psalms 112:3, Deut 8:18, Deut 28:1-14, Isaiah 54, Proverbs 10:22, and Proverbs 13 not to mention dozens of other scriptures.

This is why I tell people who go to these sites to email me so I can show you the dozens of other scriptures in the bible that those websites conveniently leave out.

I mean notice how Rev Hatchett has never referred to Psalms 112:3, Deut 8:18, Deut 28. And if he does refer to them he will say 1 of 2 things.

1.) That is the OT and no longer applies to saints.
--> In which I will respond to him and ask him to prove it with scriptures.

2.) Or the Rev will say that it is referring to spiritual wealth not physical wealth in which case I have scripture to prove to you that it is physical wealth and it has a spiritual purpose.

I notice how these websites conventiently ignore scriptures in the bible that challenge their poor, defeated, and sick doctrine.

So I have went to these websites and know them well. I have read the websites against all the preachers I listen to.

My purpose is to find out how the devil and the spirit of religion is deceiving the saints so I can counter it with the word, just like Jesus did in Mark 4.

I have familiarized myself with the spirit of religion and have battled against this spirit plenty of times for the souls of men.

Think about it JK, how is that I so easily come at you and Rev. Hatchett with scripture that completely goes against the poor, defeated, and sick doctrine? I have studied and prepared myself for battle.

My battle is not with you or Rev. Hatchett. My battle is with evil spirits and in my opinion the spirit of religion is the most EVIL spirit of them all because the other spirits would have no power if it were not for the spirit of religion that zaps the power of Christ right out of his representatives on the earth.
So I know these websites very well. Everything that Rev. Hatchett has said to me has been expected.

Now Rev. Hatchett will also say to you that what I have said is expected to but see if he EVER responds to my next post.

I would not dare argue with someone like Rev. Hatchett unless I am completely sure that I am established in righteousness. Rev. Hatchett, like a true Pharisee, is deeply rooted in the doctrine of poverty, defeat, and lack. The man has went to school to get a degree in preaching lack, poverty, and sickness and calls it the good news.

I witness to new Christians all the time so I have to prepare them for people like Hatchett when they meet him on the street. Religious people hate talking to me because I show them scriptures in the bible that they can't explain.

Rev. Hatchett,
I am not letting you get away that easy. I know what you are trying to do. You are wanting me to defend these quotes. I told you. Forget other word of faith preachers. Deal with this one. You don't need to misquote them, you have plenty of my quotes to misquote. So focus on this WOF preacher. DGS.

Keep in mind Rev, other people reading these post are going to the scripture about the woman with the issue of blood and reading what Jesus said to her when she got healed.

They are waiting on you to explain what Jesus said to the woman. They are also waiting on you to explain who caused Peter to sink when they were both walking on the water.

Please respond Rev, the people are waiting.

Whose faith healed the woman with the issue of blood? Her faith or Jesus' faith? I know it was Jesus' power but I am asking whose faith withdrew the power to heal?

I await eagerly for your answer. Don't wimper out by saying I am misinterpreting it. Just post Jesus' reply on here and then explain what Jesus meant.

I am focusing on you. You CANNOT prove that these gifts exist today AS they did in Biblical times. You may think that, but the scriptures and evidence proves it. DID A PERSON WHO LACKED FAITH EVER GET HEALED? DID A PERSON WHO COULD HEAL, NOT BE ABLE TO BECAUSE OF LACK OF FAITH? Where does faith come from? Who revealed and gave you the ability to have faith? Matthew 16

Either you believe what those quotes say or you don't, but they were spoken by the WOF preachers YOU claim to follow. Remember the statement you laughed at the other day, I will guarantee this audience that your Pastor said something equall as foolish. The quotes really are not for you anyway. They are there to help others see the reality of the WOF docrines or flase gospels. What do I care if you respond to them or not? I have heard these people say this stuff.

So what you are saying that when someone DOES NOT get healed, they did not have the faith to be healed. So then you must admit that your Pastor DID NOT have faith for his eyes to be healed. His eyes were not healed by Laser Surgery, they were corrected and helped by MAN. The man of faith and power had to rely on MAN to help his sight get better.

The broke, sick, etc. doctrine is not being preached by me, but by these POWERLESS WOF preachers who preach a, "I can show you how to go broke and stay sick by trying to pay for your healing ministry."

Now you want me to answer your question? Answer mine first. Faith is NOT a command to God that if you have it God MUST MOVE. If that's the case, then Paul would have had the thorn of his flesh removed. God NEVER said that I would have all men to be healed, rich/prosperous, famous, etc. He said that He would have ALL men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. I have no problem with riches, blessings, and health. But I am not so foolish to admit that the exact same dispensation that existed in Jesus and the Apostles day is still here. The TREES ARE KNOWN BY THEIR FRUIT. People, events, preaching, organizations, etc. SO is a poor Christian a faithful Christian? Does a poor Christian lack faith? Is a three-fingered Christian low in faith or is the preacher who prays for his healing?

The ONLY time Jesus addresses the general public concerning LITTLE FAITH has to do with the NECESSITIES OF LIFE. The other 3 times He is addressing the APOSTLES ONLY. Who is JESUS addressing with the mustard seed comparison?

Good Rev. Hatchett good. You are definitely trying to attack my emotions and get me stirred up.

Like I said Rev, the people are still waiting for you to talk about the woman with the issue of blood.

Whose faith healed her Rev? Jesus' faith or the woman's faith?

I know.....it's hard to say it ain't it. :)

Blast me and my pastor and all WOF preachers all you want, but your audience wants to know why won't you say whose faith healed the woman. Her faith or Jesus' faith. You don't have to explain it, just say it.

To everyone else,

If you have any specific questions concerning the following topics:
1. Where was Jesus the 3-days and nights he was dead?
2. The thorn in Paul's flesh
3. How faith really works

E-mail me at mike_mike3@yahoo.com. You can go to the websites that JK and Rev mentioned. I have been to these websites and it is amazing to me how there are so many scriptures they don't even mention. So if you go, email with the scriptures they gave and I will show you scriptures they conveniently ignore.

As far as the Rev, I am not doing anything further until the Rev answers my question about whose faith healed the woman with the issue of blood. If nothing else, he'll have to meditate on that one a while.

I don't want an explanation, I just want him to repeat Jesus' response to her. Everything else I've already addressed in my previous post. If I had time I would just copy and paste.

But if nothing else, somebody else can just ask the Rev to say what Jesus said to the woman. Then I can give you plenty of other scriptures with the same situation.

WHOSE FAITH HEALED THE WOMAN WITH THE ISSUE OF BLOOD?