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Re: Why I Left Elevation Baptist Church!

Letter was written to address several issues. One was Armorbearors (#5). This man was and still is the head deacon and armorbearor.


Pastor Carmichael

Praise the Lord,

I have contacted the church via the homepage contact form, and even the deacon's ministry collective e-mail. In all, I believe I have received one return e-mail for all of my correspondences as they relate to the subjects below. I have been patient on a reply concerning tithing. I had hoped to receive a return e-mail.

Before I start with my issues and concerns, I would like to state my purpose of being at EBC. Simply put; it is helping you in whatever way I can.

Here are the problems:
Tithing
1.) I am hearing a very mixed message. Tithing is required! Tithing is Free-Will! You should Tithe! The back of the program even attempts to place Tithing in the realm of New Testament giving. The program is "not really" saying one must tithe, just a part of the whole on the subject to make it appear that tithing is a type of giving in New Testament. I have even heard you state that we should bring the [TITHE at the first of the week- July 22, 2007], which is in direct contradiction of God's Word,

I Corinthians 16:2- Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I was told in my new member’s class that tithing is required of members. An application asks if one tithes! So what is the churches' official position on tithing?


Capital Building Campaign
2.) When the building project got underway, I noticed the familiar pattern of bringing people before the body to testify about tithing and blessings. Testimonies are personal experiences, not scriptural justifications or proofs that tithing works (i.e. the so-called Malachi 3:8-10 windows blessing). Personal experiences do not validate scripture.

Now when I heard the financial report, I knew what to expect. I knew the amount that should have been raised at that time was approximately $800,000. The actual Capital Campaign Fund was at $65,000 that is less than 1/10th of the expected amount. I knew what was coming next. I knew it would be an Old Testament practice changed to a financial blessing decree, such as the Heave Offering. Lo and behold, the First fruits offering appears in the Sunday church bulletin.

First Fruit Offering
3.) The problem I have with the First fruit Offering other than it being manipulated, which is unscriptural, is the 25% amount. Is that even scriptural? Where is it decreed that 25% is the amount? Where did that number come from? When will this stop? It is just like the government. When they can't pass a bond issue to pay for something, they just find a way to TAX you. I did notice that this 25% amount changed in the bulletin about 3 weeks later. Why was that?

First Fruit
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=01061


Apostolic Anointing- Miracles, signs, and wonders
4.) My next contention is with a statement made during a sermon concerning Apostolic Anointing along with miracles, etc. I would like to address, “THE THEOLOGICALLY INFORMED” comment you made concerning the belief that what we see in Acts is for today. This comment strikes me odd, as you are a graduate of a seminary school. What bothers me about this comment is what it really says to the membership. You are either knowingly or unknowingly influencing people to turn a deaf ear to anyone that disagrees with what you are saying, especially those who claim they are “theologically informed”. Well, I just happen to be theologically informed, and submit to you that the Apostles were special messengers and those miracles, signs, and wonders have their purpose. But why does one need to see or experience miracles to believe in them, even rejoice in them? They are written. If we have some need to see miracles, signs, or wonders, it’s easy to look no further than John 2. But what is easily noticed is that all Christians were not performing or experiencing miracles in the written record of the New Testament. Is not the salvation of a soul a sufficient miracle, sign, and wonder? I believe miracles still occur, but they are not needed to establish truth, or increase faith. If we believe the Bible, we must believe in the supernatural. The written record is the established proof, not personal experience.

Although we discussed this before, the tongues we see in the modern church today (the gibberish and babbling) was a common phenomenon among Pagans before the Incarnation of Christ (i.e. the Jews would have recognized it as Pagan at Pentecost), and Pagans are still doing it today.


Armor Bearing or Leadership
5.) I signed up for the leadership class believing it to be about leadership, not training to be an armor bearer. At the end of the second class, the teacher and Head Deacon, Kelvin Tyson, was discussing the role of an armor bearer. I was taken aback when I was told that in times of emergency that the Pastor takes precedence over the armor bearer’s wife and family. The exact example was that if a tornado were to hit Raleigh, and the Pastor lived on the other side of town that the armor bearer’s wife and children would have to make do on their own, or fend for themselves. This was the response I received after challenging such a ludicrous statement. I asked, “Where in the Bible does it say the Pastor comes before a wife”? I was summarily told that if I didn’t buy into that, then armor bearing was not my calling. The question was never scripturally answered. The only answer I received was a comparison of an armor bearer to a secret serviceman. A Pastor is not a King, President, etc.

Peter’s cursing or use of profanity
6.) Is profanity (cursing) being spoken by Peter, or is it something else. A study of the passage will render the fact that he is not cursing (using profanity). This is a common fallacy passed down via ignorance and simply accepting another person at their word.


In conclusion, I love you and every believer at EBC. One thing I count above that all is the truth of God’s Word.

Re: Why I Left Elevation Baptist Church!

I never thought I would receive a response, bit I did. It was from a leader, but not the Pastor. I will post his response alone, then my responses, point-for-point.

Re: Why I Left Elevation Baptist Church!

Minister Hatchett
I never thought I would receive a response, bit I did. It was from a leader, but not the Pastor. I will post his response alone, then my responses, point-for-point.



Fred,
It saddens me to think that you must seek to kick against the ****** of Christ in the name of Christ. Your attack on Elevation and Pastor Carmichael is ungodly and without merit. Pastor has done nothing but preach Jesus Christ, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. You where here for almost three years and you know this to be true.

Thousands have come to Christ through the ministry God has entrusted to Pastor Carmichael. Lives have changed and made whole as holy living is the cornerstone of his ministry. Through the grace of God three services have been necessary to contain the people; hence, a new edifice will be erected to accommodate the thousands more that are coming. Building because of need not want.

You have done a great disservice to Elevation, Pastor Carmichael and the leadership by spreading your vicious half truths online. You will have to give an account publicly. The seed you have sown will come back the same way, publicly. If I were you, I would take my mouth off Elevation and Pastor Carmichael.



Fred, I work side by side this great of man of God everyday and his integrity and honesty is impeccable. He loves God, his family and God’s people.


Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


Anthony Foust

"Blessings Be Upon You!"

Re: Why I Left Elevation Baptist Church!

Minister Hatchett
I never thought I would receive a response, bit I did. It was from a leader, but not the Pastor. I will post his response alone, then my responses, point-for-point.


My response, point-for-point

Minister Foust,

This is my response to your letter. It wreaks with the stench of a controlling tone.



Minister Fred Hatchett

I am copying a dear brother in Christ on every correspondence. I plan to respond carefully, so that I will be clear and to the point. I will ask few questions, but allow me to remind you that I kept written notes of what I saw and heard. I wanted to have a real exit interview, but was told to simply turn in the form. It was you all who chose not to speak with me for quite some time and you and I both know why.



Well sir, I had a simple question I asked you about the capital campaign fund that you did not answer. Unless the church raised 3+ million dollars since November 2008, you know as well as I that you more than,"didn't quite make it", as you said.



Minister Anthony Foust wrote:

"Fred,

It saddens me to think that you must seek to kick against the ****** of Christ in the name of Christ. Your attack on Elevation and Pastor Carmichael is ungodly and without merit. Pastor has done nothing but preach Jesus Christ, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. You where here for almost three years and you know this to be true."



Minister Fred Hatchett

First kicking against the ****** has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. If you are trying to remotely equivocate what Paul was doing to the church to what I am doing, I beg you for the similarity. Paul was persecuting Christians, not rebuking local church leadership trying to build huge edifices at congregant's expense, which is exactly what pastor Carmichael said "GOD TOLD HIM", who was going to pay. I doubt seriously that EBC is suffering persecution anywhere near what the church after the ascension of Christ.



Do you remember our conversation about the very reason this whole discussion is really about? TITHING!

What was your response to my questions? You said, "Well what about Malachi 3"? I said, "what about it"? No reply from you. Then you brought up Proverbs about first fruits. I asked if money was the object of giving. You said that you "believed" animals and such were the livelihood of that day, but money is now. I asked you how did you make that connection. No reply from you again. If your Pastor preaches Christ, then why so much focus on MONEY?Why were tithers the only ones who testified about God's financial blessing?





Minister Foust

"Thousands have come to Christ through the ministry God has entrusted to Pastor Carmichael. Lives have changed and made whole as holy living is the cornerstone of his ministry. Through the grace of God three services have been necessary to contain the people; hence, a new edifice will be erected to accommodate the thousands more that are coming. Building because of need not want.



Minister Hatchett

Let's the new edifice would be big enough to accomodate 20,000 people. There would still be no need for it to cost $70,000,000. But since he wants three different building materials, etc., the cost is boosted. If you read the complete post, you saw the numbers. 1500 people gave approximately $200,000 over 18 months. That's $7.40 per person per month. With the maximum projected of 20,000, it would still take that many people, approximately 39 years to pay off without any taxes. My point is this; it is obvious that a HUGE majority of people are not with the Pastor's vision. They all stand in agreement, but are they really in agreement.





Minister Foust

"You have done a great disservice to Elevation, Pastor Carmichael and the leadership by spreading your vicious half truths online. You will have to give an account publicly. The seed you have sown will come back the same way, publicly. If I were you, I would take my mouth off Elevation and Pastor Carmichael."





Minister Fred Hatchett

Who is doing a disservice to who? You mention the half-truths, but do not mention exactly what they are, and why doesn't Pastor Carmichael contact me concerning this issue. All of EBC who follow this vision will have to give an account. The seeds you all are sowing will come back publicly as well. Playing with people's pocket books is a very dangerous thing. The LOVE of money is the root of many evils. Placing a young person with little experience over the youth is dangerous as well, not to mention he is a member of a cult-like organization that your pastor publicly rebuked. What kind of message does that send to people when you speak out against Greek Organizations, and then appoint one, his son, as a leader?





You did yourself a great disservice by not addressing the problems of ONE member. As I said in my letter; this whole issue is about MONEY. You know it, I know it, and so will everyone else who wants to serve Christ, but cannot, because they want to follow scripture, instead of half-baked truths to keep tithing. You and anyone else there had your chance to sit me down, open up the scripture, and have a serious discussion about tithing and any other issues. But what did you say to me on the way out; I will paraphrase, this matter is closed. That is why I asked Victor to see if I could participate in ANY ministry. Why did you all not simply tell me I could not, instead I had to ask? Your church's policy of leaving well enough alone does not work with everyone. Everytime I came to church, you all had the chance to pull me to the side and tell me that I was no longer welcome, or could not serve.



Minister Foust

"Fred, I work side by side this great of man of God everyday and his integrity and honesty is impeccable. He loves God, his family and Gods people."



Minister Hatchett

I am denying none of this, and I believe my letters show that. If not, I stand corrected. But honesty and integrity mean nothing to me when you tell me that I can use my gifts, and I cannot, because you won't let me, and I would not know it until at least 8 weeks after I joined. This is due to the seven week orientation. Now if Pastor said, you must comply with all the rules, before you can use your gifts, I would have nothting to say about that. Integrity is telling the church, the whole story about the Capital Campaign Fund. The financial meeting last November did not escape my attention. The puny amount of time spent on it did not go unnoticed by me. You all spent about one hour on the building the first meeting I attended, but the one in 2008, lasted all but 2 minutes.



Integrity also means standing by what you say. Pastor Carmichael welcomed criticism, but never answered my letter. I was also made aware that he had someone screening his e-mails for him in the first place, so maybe that wasn't his fault. But I know who does the screening for him. The bottom line is that he never addressed any of my concerns. Evidently, his leadership were TRAINED to keep him protected from certain issues; issues you all thought you could handle.



Minister Foust

Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.



Anthony Foust

"Blessings Be Upon You!"



Minister Hatchett

So who is the offended here? Please think long and hard before answering that question. I do not believe I am stupid. I believe that all of my concerns are valid.



If you or you and others would ever like to meet about this, I have no problem, but I will bring my wife, some trusted Christian brothers, and a tape recorder. If it's just you that would like to meet; it will be myself and a tape recorder that shows up.

919/278-8911