Thanks for the Malcolm X rendition with a few additives.

Just a reminder to keep these sites in mind as you do your research. Everyone likes to say that I am coarse, harsh with words, etc. Go on these sites asking good questions and see what happens to you.

You're closed minded. You have some good information. You're delivery stinks. Thus people won't listen. Switch it up. You may surprise yourself.

Sam, we share two different worldviews, so why should I try it your way. Everyone at stophazing, Onolympus, etc. said that no one was listening that my delivery sucked, and no one from these sites would ever denounce so why even do it. They ALL were wrong. I have met all but one of these people personally, and once Jesus opened their eyes, they could see clearly that what you are saying is a fallacy.

I am not the one who is going to convince any person of anything. Only Jesus can open the eyes of one's understanding.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. This means that knowledge originates from God, and ANY worldview to the contrary is not scriptural. So who is closed minded?

Your charge of closed minded is self-defeating. For you are as well. "Thus people won't listen" (closed minded)

"Sam, we share two different worldviews, so why should I try it your way. Everyone at stophazing, Onolympus, etc. said that no one was listening that my delivery sucked, and no one from these sites would ever denounce so why even do it. They ALL were wrong. I have met all but one of these people personally, and once Jesus opened their eyes, they could see clearly that what you are saying is a fallacy."

In addition to that, I have never seen you call "anyone" on stophazing closed minded. I wonder why? This would be clearly hypocritical, but I do not believe you are even aware, so I will just label it as ignorance. So until you address the others on their who profess to be saved, as you do me, I believe you are in no place to call me closed minded. Was Jesus closed minded? Is the Bible a closed minded work? Do you believe that Jesus is the only way? Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe Jesus is the mediator between God and man?

Yes. Our world views are different. Our spiritual views are also. Like it or not, all religions, including Christianity, were developed by men. That is not to say these men were wrong, I'm just stating a fact. and because of this, each has it's good sides and bad. With that said, I do not believe that any movement established by the almighty would ever succumb to the "tit for tat" (my religion is better that yours or my version of this religion is better than yours. IMHO, that is not of God. It is of Man. That is where we differ. I believe it is through living a righteous life, for people to see is what will draw those whom you seek. I personally do not believe in the Judaic/Christian diaspora which states that these few people (Jews) are the only ones anointed by God. To believe in that though process would have me believe that the African, the Aborigine, the Asian and every other non-European person, who never had contact with Judaism or Christianity, are going straight to hell. I emphatically dismiss that thinking as do many others because of the abuse and suffering experienced by many people to include the poor Europeans, Native peoples of the Americas, the Taino people of the Caribbean, the Aborigine of South east Asia and Australia and etc at the hands of Christians.

Now to the BLGO argument. To believe that all BGLO members pray to a Greek god is no better logic that to believe since you use US money, you worship it. Or because you recite it's the same verses that this is somehow heresy. All are nonsense. There is no basis for either.

In closing, we all believe in what we believe. Our beliefs change over time. You choose to believe from a religious world view, I believe from a spiritual view. I truly believe the latter is how God wants us to live; to be accepting of those who are different.

Take care.

Instant Messenger: Sam

I do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to the God. Men wrote that to solidify their positions of power over the masses in both the Judaic and Christian thought. I've explained how and why but you continue to dispel the information.

I do believe GOD is almighty and that GOD, out of the billion or so people living during the time of Jesus, would not have select just one group of people out of that billion, then condemn those who have no knowledge of Jesus.

If that is your believe system, then so be it and I respect that. The Spirit touches and flows through all people IF they choose to abide by it. It does not matter what you may call yourself. That is what I believe.

Instant Messenger: Sam

Sam
Yes. Our world views are different. Our spiritual views are also.


Min. H
My worldview is my spiritual views.


Sam
Like it or not, all religions, including Christianity, were developed by men.



Min. H
"Like it or not"! ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD.



Sam
That is not to say these men were wrong, I'm just stating a fact.


Min. H
Are you stating a fact? Really? Wow!

II Peter 2
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.



Sam
and because of this, each has it's good sides and bad. With that said, I do not believe that any movement established by the almighty would ever succumb to the "tit for tat" (my religion is better that yours or my version of this religion is better than yours.




Min. H
I never saw anywhere in the Word of God where He says men would be perfect, even those who accepted Him, but it was established upon a perfect person. And claiming to be the only way, as well as proving His identity is a far cry from a tit for tat.




Sam
IMHO, that is not of God. It is of Man. That is where we differ. I believe it is through living a righteous life, for people to see is what will draw those whom you seek.



Min. H
No man can live a righteous life apart from Christ.

II Corinthians 5
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


NOW SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE? YOU HAVE CREATED YOUR OWN STANDARD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, ALTHOUGH YOU NEVER STATED WHAT IT IS. So if man is imperfect, how can he set a standard of righteousness? Where does that standard come from?




Sam
I personally do not believe in the Judaic/Christian diaspora which states that these few people (Jews) are the only ones anointed by God. To believe in that though process would have me believe that the African, the Aborigine, the Asian and every other non-European person, who never had contact with Judaism or Christianity, are going straight to hell.



Min. H
Is that really what the Bible says SAM? No it is not.
John 1:12- But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Had the Egyptians heeded Moses and put blood on their doorposts, their first born would have survived. God made no difference when he made his decree. ANY MAN, OLD OR NEW TESTAMENT COULD ACCEPT GOD BY FAITH.




Sam
I emphatically dismiss that thinking as do many others because of the abuse and suffering experienced by many people to include the poor Europeans, Native peoples of the Americas, the Taino people of the Caribbean, the Aborigine of South east Asia and Australia and etc at the hands of Christians.



Min. H
Christians by whose definition??????????



Sam
Now to the BLGO argument. To believe that all BGLO members pray to a Greek god is no better logic that to believe since you use US money, you worship it.



Min. H
You are right, and I do not subscribe to such thinking.



Sam
Or because you recite it's the same verses that this is somehow heresy. All are nonsense. There is no basis for either.

In closing, we all believe in what we believe. Our beliefs change over time. You choose to believe from a religious world view, I believe from a spiritual view. I truly believe the latter is how God wants us to live; to be accepting of those who are different.


Min. H
I would rather trust what a historical reliable document says over how I believe God wants us to live. Are you saying that Jesus is WRONG WHEN HE STATED TO BE THE ONLY WAY?



Sam
I do not believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to the God.



Min. H
Men dictated what Jesus said. So you are saying that Jesus is wrong?



Sam
Men wrote that to solidify their positions of power over the masses in both the Judaic and Christian thought. I've explained how and why but you continue to dispel the information.



Min. H
1.) You were not there and neither was I.
2.) The Apostles were in no position of power, EVER. This is interesting,
Acts 5 (but it all starts back in Acts 4)
34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.


So these men preached under the threat of violence. Why? Because they were convinced that Jesus was the Christ, NOT TO SOLIDIFY POWER OVER THE MASSES.



Sam
I do believe GOD is almighty and that GOD, out of the billion or so people living during the time of Jesus, would not have select just one group of people out of that billion, then condemn those who have no knowledge of Jesus.


Min. H
It's amazing how you are so wrong. God actually set up the belief system that denied those YOU said were anointed. And men did not condemn anyone, Jesus simply stated to be the only way, take Him or leave Him, but ALL ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.



Sam
If that is your believe system, then so be it and I respect that. The Spirit touches and flows through all people IF they choose to abide by it. It does not matter what you may call yourself. That is what I believe.



Min. H
No you do not respect it. You cannot hold an opposing and demeaning view and respect it at the same time. You have proven this at stophazing, time and time again, and what is sad is the so-called Christians over there who either agree with you or say nothing.

WHO IS THAT SPIRIT?

"The Spirit touches and flows through all people IF they choose to abide by it." Sam

And how do they abide?


II John 8-10 (verse 9)
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

Sam
Based on your responses, your position is one where you believe what is written and interpreted by Men: The Bible. I do not. For me to believe what they wrote is no different than the people who believe in LDS interpretation.


Min. H
This statement shows me that you know nothing of textual reliability. The Bible when subject to internal and external evidence tests comes out in flying colors, the LDS does not. When it comes to bibliographical tests the Bible comes out in flying colors, the LDS does not.

But as usual, your statement is self-defeating, for you rely on the same UNRELIABLE SOURCE for wherever you get your information from; MEN.


"what is written and interpreted by Men". When someone dictates to you, you write what they say, not interpret it. It's no different with the Bible. Men were the writers of what God inspired (dictated) them to write. Why is this concept so hard to understand when it comes to the Bible? That's the real question that needs to be answered. People want to create these outlandish questions about the Bible, never applying it to anything else. It smacks of Romans 1:21. People reject God, so they make up a whole bunch of foolishness to side step his righteousness and rules.



Sam
If you've been inspired by God, there would be those who would dispute your experience. Does that mean it did not happen? Absolutely not.



Min. H
Experience does not determine what is true and not true. There is only one source of truth, which is not based on a plethora of human experiences. Truth is absolute and therefore abstract. Truth does not rely on the physical experience to make it true.

And what do you mean by inspired?



Sam
One thing bothers me. Christians and other peoples of the world. Are you saying that Christians did not persecute, enslave, kill, pillage, commit pedophilia and colonized under the banner of being followers of Jesus and the Christian Church? They absolutely did.



Min. H
See Sam, had you really been paying attention, I deny nothing of the sort for it occurs to this very day, but "UNDER THE BANNER", does not make it BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY.


Sam
Also, you never directly answered my question so I'll ask it again. How to do reconcile that fact that at least a billion other people/societies existed in parallel during the time of Jesus with no knowledge of Jesus nor Christianity. Are these people condemned?



Min. H
No man or woman will stand before God with any excuse. So if they are condemned, then they have know excuse.

Romans 1
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are ****without excuse:*****

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

God has revealed Himself in other ways beside direct contact or by hearing the gospel from another person.



Sam
My point is that we must rise above the level of dogmatic religious belief systems and operate spiritually.



Min. H
So Jesus did not operate spiritually when He said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life", which by the way is very dogmatic and completely exclusive?


Sam
Each of us has this ability, including yourself. Just about all conflicts, which exist in this world, revolve around religious arguments.



Min. H
It is these differing worldviews that are in conflict. It was then, and it is now.

What do you think happened with Adam and Eve?

And when you say "operate" spiritually, I am almost afraid to ask how, but how do you operate spiritually, and please, no vague answers?

And you did not answer quite a few of my questions.



What is your standard of righteousness?

Where did it come from?

Are you calling Jesus a liar when He says he is the only way?

I'm not calling Jesus, You nor anyone else a liar. IMHO, you, I and everyone else don't know what Jesus said. Men have CLAIMED to have been inspired to write what they wrote. You can believe what you want but You don't know want Jesus said because absolutely nothing written in the Bible was written Jesus. These writings did were not composed until a couple of hundred years after his death. Base on that, why should anyone based their religious beliefs on that of the Romans and writers whom we know nothing about? You quote scriptures to buttress your arguments. However, I'm want to know is what you believe in you OWN words. How do you explain these type questions to your followers? How do you explain that the Old Testimate of the Bible was taken directly from the Torah? How do you explain to your followers that Jesus live and died a Jewish Rabbi? How do you explain to your followers that what we call Christianity was established as a another Jewish religion? Do you explain all of this to your followers or do you ask them to follow you blindly without asking questions? Do you tell your followers that religion is man made?

The "fire and brimstone" aka "Dante's Inferno" religious mind set is not working for the majority of people. Also, to say that people are condemned because they don't know of Jesus is beyond belief. Do you actually believe the Almighty is that petty? Did Jesus actually say that to his followers? I don't think so and since Jesus did not write anything in the Bible, we will never really know.

Don't have time now, but as usual your own words are crushed under their own weight. Here's one quick example before I go.

"I don't think so and since Jesus did not write anything in the Bible, we will never really know." Sam

How do I know you actually wrote this? You could have had someone type for you. See how silly you sound sir? I will deal with the rest later. Especially your claim of the 100's of years. Man, people need to see your logic exposed.

Sam,
I'm not calling Jesus, You nor anyone else a liar. IMHO, you, I and everyone else don't know what Jesus said. Men have CLAIMED to have been inspired to write what they wrote. You can believe what you want but You don't know want Jesus said because absolutely nothing written in the Bible was written Jesus. These writings did were not composed until a couple of hundred years after his death. Base on that, why should anyone based their religious beliefs on that of the Romans and writers whom we know nothing about?



Min. H
Your claim is that we shouldn't believe what is written in the Bible about what Jesus said because Jesus didn't write anything. Your claim of two hundred years after the fact is so easily disputed that no one who does a basic study of biblical history would even dare to use "a" hundred years. So what have you done here SAM? You have chosen to believe what MEN have written. So your belittling campaign against divine inspiration causes you to believe in less reliable documentation from a period closer to us. Should that be the case?



Sam
You quote scriptures to buttress your arguments. However, I'm want to know is what you believe in you OWN words.




Min. H
I have done this, and wouldn't dare leave myself hanging out there with no divine support. By quoting scripture, I am saying what I believe.




Sam
How do you explain these type questions to your followers? How do you explain that the Old Testimate of the Bible was taken directly from the Torah?



Min. H
I would ask first that you present proof of your supposition.




Sam
How do you explain to your followers that Jesus live and died a Jewish Rabbi?



Min. H
By stating that only people referred to Him as such, as well as stating that He was physically raised from the dead as He said He would be.




Sam
How do you explain to your followers that what we call Christianity was established as a another Jewish religion?




Min. H
That almost everything Jesus practiced and established went against the Jewish religion itself, such as doing things on the Sabbath, and not requiring Christians to practice the Law.



Sam
Do you explain all of this to your followers or do you ask them to follow you blindly without asking questions? Do you tell your followers that religion is man made?



Min. H
I tell them that all other religions are man-made, but Christianity (the Church) is God originated. Follow blindly? I am not the one who reveals the truth to people.



Sam
The "fire and brimstone" aka "Dante's Inferno" religious mind set is not working for the majority of people. Also, to say that people are condemned because they don't know of Jesus is beyond belief. Do you actually believe the Almighty is that petty? Did Jesus actually say that to his followers? I don't think so and since Jesus did not write anything in the Bible, we will never really know.



Min. H
I never said if no one ever knew Jesus they would be condemned, but Jesus did say it.......... You find it, it's not that hard. What's not working for the majority of people will not change the end conclusion for denying Jesus.

And read the Bible clearly Sam, Jesus never, nor did his Apostles claim that He wrote anything. But what you fail to realize is that these things were written by eyewitnesses in the presence of eyewitnesses who could have disputed anything that was said or done by Jesus and His followers. Where is the evidence? You won't find it anywhere near the time it occurred.

If the Bible is considered to be untrustworthy, then ALL other historical(ancient historical) documents must be considered untrustworthy.

The gospels and authors claim to be giving eyewitness accounts

1. John 19:35
2. John 21:24-25
3. 2 Peter 1:16-19
4. 1 John 1:1-5
5. Acts 2:22

The Creed

1. Most important creed, historically is in 1 Cor 15
2. Given to Paul ~35 AD
3. The creed was formulated and used within the church in 2-5 years after crucifixion.
4. Too little time elapsed for legend development
5. Relates beliefs to Christ chronologically

http://www.shoutingman.com/bible/ntrely/index.html

This is not 200 years Sam. Eyewitness accounts!

Happy Father's Day.

I am interested in your rebuttal to the above information.

To Happy Father's Day?

No, to truth!

And read the Bible clearly Sam, Jesus never, nor did his Apostles claim that He wrote anything. But what you fail to realize is that these things were written by eyewitnesses in the presence of eyewitnesses who could have disputed anything that was said or done by Jesus and His followers. Where is the evidence? You won't find it anywhere near the time it occurred.

If the Bible is considered to be untrustworthy, then ALL other historical(ancient historical) documents must be considered untrustworthy.

The gospels and authors claim to be giving eyewitness accounts

1. John 19:35
2. John 21:24-25
3. 2 Peter 1:16-19
4. 1 John 1:1-5
5. Acts 2:22

The Creed

1. Most important creed, historically is in 1 Cor 15
2. Given to Paul ~35 AD
3. The creed was formulated and used within the church in 2-5 years after crucifixion.
4. Too little time elapsed for legend development
5. Relates beliefs to Christ chronologically

http://www.shoutingman.com/bible/ntrely/index.html

This is not 200 years Sam. Eyewitness accounts!

"eyewitnesses in the presence of eyewitnesses" is second hand accounting which proves that there is no existing first hand accounts of Jesus when He walked the earth. This is one of the weaknesses of religion. Jesus and how we should give praise to God is dictated by a small group of men who never heard Jesus speak.

Wrong once again Sam, again. The fact is that there were eyewitnesses of Jesus Christ who wrote and spoke things about Him and His works, in the presence of OTHER eyewitnesses who COULD HAVE REFUTED the things they wrote and spoke of, but no one did. An eyewitness IS NOT A SECOND HAND ACCOUNTING. Even courts of law understand this.

Now allow me to show you the weakness of your argument once again.

You said, "Jesus and how we should give praise to God is dictated by a small group of men who never heard Jesus speak."

WHO SAID THIS? WHERE IS YOUR EYEWITNESS EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS THE CASE? Not only that, you showed your hand of bias when you used the word dictated. Then you showed your hand by stating something as fact with no evidence to support it. This is worse than second hand accounting, this is pure conjecture based upon the presupposition that Jesus did not speak directly to the Apostles.

Herein lies your fatal flaw. There were THOUSANDS who heard Jesus speak, witness His miracles, and it even records their criticisms of Him. So there was no DICTATING anything here. It was purely an accurate accounting of what happened.

Which Christian writings were written when Jesus walk this earth? Please be specific.

I will answer your questions, although you did not answer mine.

I believe you are referring to my statement about what people wrote about Jesus. I never said they were written and/or compiled while he was alive.

When you say Christian Writings can you please be specific as to what you define as Christian?

Thank you for the clarification. Since there are no writings written by Jesus and none of the writings were written while he was walking this earth, who is to say that what you write, while inspired by the spirit, should not be include as part of the Christian Church doctrine?

What I'm getting at is; is it the religious doctrine which is most important or is it the Spirit which is important?

Divinely inspired teachings from God Himself are not what you call "religious" doctrine. It is called truth. You have offered no proof for your argument and have not even stated what your position is. If you have genuine questions that stem from a genuine attitude of heart, I am more than willing to answer those. But if you wish to continue, I would seriously study,

1.) How the scriptures came to be.
2.) Are they reliable?
3.) Compare them to other works of antiquity, especially where you get your information from.

1. Who decides which teachings are divinely inspired of God and which are "truth"?

2. Do we have a direct connection to God sans Christian Religion or any other religion?

3. From your perspective, is there a difference between religion and spirituality and their respective practices?

As for my positions:

1. Every person can have a connection to God without the having to submit to any type of religious dogma. It is nothing wrong with worshiping together.

2. Since all religions are "man-made", they are all corrupted on some level. Jesus understood this and that is why he threw the gentlemen out of the temple.

3. Religion vs. Spirituality. Because of religious fanaticism, our world is currently experiencing nonsensical acts because one group believe IT'S religious doctrine supersedes another groups beliefs. One only needs to look to the Middle East. That is why I do not believe in organized religion of any type.

I believe in leading by example. I believe that I cannot belittle anyone else opinions. I believe in looking into the mirror at myself before I attempt to tell someone else how to live, what to believe and how to think. I do not believe that my children were born into sin. I believe that both of them were gifts from God and that my wife and I are only guides to help them along in the physical world.

I believe that the many people who pickup the banner proclaiming to speak for Jesus have absolutely no clue as to what He was truly about; much of it due to the lack of any writing author by Jesus directly.

Jesus is love. Anything other than that is a man made embellishment.

I probably asked before, but do not remember an answer,

IS TRUTH ABSOLUTE?

When you answer that, I will answer all of your questions.

You are a duck and dodge technician. There are so many questions you avoided or did not answer. How can you say that Jesus is Love, but that He is not the only way? How do you know? What document told you that? Of course, you only need answer the one question above. It will be the tell all of your whole system of logic.

Thank-You!

Allow me to put it to you this way in terms of absolute truth, if you answer yes, you are a liar, if you say no, you are a liar. You make the choice. One answer defies all logic, the other is completely logical.

Thank-You!

Truth. Here is one. We(You included) do not know if Jesus said that He was the only way. A man WROTE that Jesus said he was the only way. That is a truth. How can I say that Jesus was not the only way? I say that because of the billions of other peoples of the world that have no knowledge of Judaic/Christian belief system. Are you so small minded to believe that GOD would ONLY manifest herself via the Jews? Are you saying the GOD almighty could not or did not manifest herself to other peoples of the world? You are too caught up in the religion and not the spirit and that is YOUR problem.

People who read this; this is typical of those who cannot properly present a logical argument, and yet and still show their logic to be faulty, and to prove that in what they say that my question about absolutes was answered. Yet and still, let's see if we can get an honest yes or no answer to the question being asked. It was really my fault for asking something else.

Sam, do you believe in absolute truth? Yes or No

absolute = free from any restrictions.
truth = conformity with fact or reality

absolute truth = non sequitur

You know what, allow me to give a definition of absolute truth, at least one I agree with.

"An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact." http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-absolute-truth.htm

Now Sam, based on this definition, do you believe in absolute truth?

Re-read my last statement. Some view "absolute truth" as an paradigm, some as a paradox.

"An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact."

You have a problem you must resolve.

Hold on!


A paradox (an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises) or

paradigm (a philosophical or theoretical framework of any kind)?

Where is your loving God to solve this issue for you? He cannot reveal this to you?

Jesus claimed to be the only way to God. He also said He was truth. There is no paradox or paradigm there. He is or He is not.

You make statements of absolute truth as well, so you apparently may see it as both a paradox and paradigm, but you do not employ it as such. This is my whole point with those who claim people like me are closed-minded, when they are no different themselves. You play yourself off to be some person who is accepting of all other's beliefs, and unwilling to put there beliefs down, yet you yourself do it constantly.


The only difference between you and me is that you grab your beliefs out of thin air with no legitimate evidence, yet PURELY philosophical (your paradigm), while clearly coming to plenty of self-contradicting conclusions (your paradox).

And if you are into spirituality, then tell me, what or who is providing you with your information?

Please provide an intelligent answer here. This is no insult. God created us to be intelligent creatures.

You hide behind this apparent unknown world of spirituality. You have never claimed any source for you information. If it's God, show me where He has left a legitimate source for all of your claims throughout this thread?

****I expect an answer to the above question if nothing else. I am done playing games, it's time to show up with your "A" game. All posts not answering this question will be erased, and you know I will do it.**** I have been asking this question a lot in previous replies.

Hold on!


A paradox (an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises) or

paradigm (a philosophical or theoretical framework of any kind)?

Where is your loving God to solve this issue for you? He cannot reveal this to you?

Sam

There is no issue to be solved on my end. God is love.

Jesus claimed to be the only way to God. He also said He was truth. There is no paradox or paradigm there. He is or He is not.

Sam

"Man" claimed that Jesus said that He was the only way to salvation. Let us not forget that these same men operated from the Judaic/Christian mind set. I do NOT believe that the other xx billion of people who inhabit the earthly realm before, during and after Jesus walked this earth with no knowledge of Jesus, are condemned to ****ation nor are any less pious because they do not believe that the Israelites are the chosen people of God.

You make statements of absolute truth as well, so you apparently may see it as both a paradox and paradigm, but you do not employ it as such. This is my whole point with those who claim people like me are closed-minded, when they are no different themselves. You play yourself off to be some person who is accepting of all other's beliefs, and unwilling to put there beliefs down, yet you yourself do it constantly.

Sam

I have express my beliefs to you on this MB and on the other(SH). I refuse to be buffaloed by you or anyone else when it comes to discussing my beliefs. If this upsets you, that's on you. I've do not get upset at those who don't agree with me. I listen, maybe dialog if possible and keep it moving.

The only difference between you and me is that you grab your beliefs out of thin air with no legitimate evidence, yet PURELY philosophical (your paradigm), while clearly coming to plenty of self-contradicting conclusions (your paradox).

Sam

Just because a group of men, who never heard Jesus speak, decide to write about his teachers 100 years after his death, does not make those writing legit. If that is the case, then what you write something about Jesus and you claim it was divinely inspired, who can argue that? Does that make your claim wrong?

And if you are into spirituality, then tell me, what or who is providing you with your information?

Please provide an intelligent answer here. This is no insult. God created us to be intelligent creatures.

Sam

The spirit of God moves in and around us at all times. It is not bound by ritualistic, religious nonsense that man has established. It is not bound by church images, garbs and items found in many houses of worship. It is in each and every one of us. Each and every person has the ability to engage the Spirit of God WITHOUT religion. This is what is feared by people like yourself. Once people realize this fact, then it's game over.

You hide behind this apparent unknown world of spirituality. You have never claimed any source for you information. If it's God, show me where He has left a legitimate source for all of your claims throughout this thread?

Sam

The Source is God. One can access it via prayer. No physical building, no special garb, no special "order of mass", no special titles, no special books. Through prayer, we access the spirit of God. Is this the only way? I do not know; it works for me.

I believe I read where you had children. Let me ask you this. At the time of birth, did you believe your child was a sinful being? And before you answer, pick your child up and hung him/her while you answer my question. DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THEY WERE BORN AS SINFUL BEINGS! You'll probably answer yes but in your heart, no.

When I view the birth of my children, I witness the glory of God. To allow these two healthy spirits to bless my wife and I is a blessing bestowed by God.

Delete my posts. I grow weary speaking to one who chooses to live in fear.

****I expect an answer to the above question if nothing else. I am done playing games, it's time to show up with your "A" game. All posts not answering this question will be erased, and you know I will do it.**** I have been asking this question a lot in previous replies.







Min. H
As usual, you offered no proof for your claims. You offered much out of thin air yourself. If I were to read this, I would not know if God were personal or impersonal, and it or a person.

YOU OFFERED ABSOLUTELY NO REASONING AS TO WHY YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE NOT BORN IN SIN. My children like myself, YOU, my mom, dad, and all others beside Jesus were born into sin.

You say God is love, yet offer no insight into what His love means. Romans 5 would do you some good hear. The nature of who God is starts in Genesis 1:1 an proceeds on from there.

As to the source, how do you know it's prayer? You still have not defined who God is. I have seen you call God a she and it, etc.






"Sam

Just because a group of men, who never heard Jesus speak, decide to write about his teachers 100 years after his death, does not make those writing legit. If that is the case, then what you write something about Jesus and you claim it was divinely inspired, who can argue that? Does that make your claim wrong?"





Min. H
I love this here. Your are historically, very inaccurate with your 100 years assumption. Where's your evidence? Paul personally wrote some of his letters. Paul lived DURING Jesus' life, and actually HEARD HIS VOICE, Acts 9. All that has been divinely inspired is already written. I have a source of truth, anything I add or take away is sinful and evil. Who can argue that, God Himself through His inspired Word.


Notice that your WHOLE argument is supported upon the foundation of ONE THING; that the Bible is not the Word of God. Yet, you every statement either supports the Biblical Worldview even when you try to dismiss the Bible, and then other statements you make require its blessing. Wowzers!!!!!!!!!




"Each and every person has the ability to engage the Spirit of God WITHOUT religion." Sam




Min. H
I agree, but engagement does not equal relationship. It's called repentance. Luke 13:3/John 1:12





"Sam

The spirit of God moves in and around us at all times. It is not bound by ritualistic, religious nonsense that man has established. It is not bound by church images, garbs and items found in many houses of worship. It is in each and every one of us. Each and every person has the ability to engage the Spirit of God WITHOUT religion. This is what is feared by people like yourself. Once people realize this fact, then it's game over."






Min. H
Sam this line of thinking is not game over, it is game forever in hell, unless they realize the error of their ways. It will be a never ending torment. The game will go on and on forever. ACTS 16:19-31 is the sobering fact and the telling of two accounts of two different men with two different destinies.

And you still offered no proof for your claims, as I suspected you would not. All you did was try to attack the evidence, but at least the evidence is their to examine. Have you ever really looked at it?

Min H.,

God IS.

I do not subscribe to any rituals or doctrines. That is my belief.


God's nature:

It appears that your belief system centers on the Judaic/Christian methodology. Mine does not. To do so would call all other peoples who existed thousands of years before the advent of the aforementioned religion wrong even though they have worship God in another language, on another continent in another time period.

Sin:

I do not believe we are born into sin. I do not believe in Dante's rendition of hell an sin of which much, if not all, of the current imagery has been derived from. I do not believe you, nor you wife, nor you children nor mine were born into it either.

Bible:

Translation: a catalog of books. That is exactly what it is. It was established during the Convention of Nicaea by the perverse and corrupt government of Rome. During this time, the Gnostic writing were left out. Guess why? Becasue those writing scared the Council membership because it spoke of every person having a direct connection with God WITHOUT the need for organized churches. To include these writing would undermine the political power that the religious hierarchy enjoyed.

Paul:

You are correct that He live during the time of Jesus. The jury is still out as to IF he did author the writing attributed to him.

Evidence:

I was baptized and confirmed into the Episcopalian denomination and "grew up" in the church. Like you, I studied the word. Like you, I studied the religious differences between the churches. Base on what I lived and saw, I concluded early on that religion was man made. If it was truly of God, we would not need the various denominations, masses and church titles.

Conclusion

In conclusion, it is you who have not truly attempted to listen to what I've stated. I believe in God. I do not believe in religion. All religions are man made. Therefore, all religions are corrupt at some level. Part of the the religious doctrines require that those followers dismiss, ridicule and sometimes murder those who do not subscribe to THEIR belief system(s). One only has to look at what is happening in the Middle East. Your Christian religion is nothing more than a variation of Judaic religion in which all people are taught to believe that the Jews are the chosen people of God. Open your eyes and heart and again, ask yourself: were your children born into sin because of Judaic beliefs? Puuuleaze. Believe want you want. Believe in Dante's rendition of Sin and purgatory. God IS. God is Love. God is the Spirit.

Min. H
Okay, let me explain what I do not mean by proof/evidence.
1.) Not a warm fuzzy in your tummy.
2.) Not an answer to prayer.
3.) Not opinion based on lack of evidence.
4.) Not something based off other fallacious stories.
5.) Not based on what happened 200+ years after the actual events occurred.
6.) Not just God Is.

Now let me explain what evidence/proof is.
Of the first 3, you completely fail.

Remember that the 66 books were written and accepted long before the Council of Nicea. The originals (Autograph Copies) may not exist, but were circulated among the early church. So is what we have today, an accurate and reliable rendition of the autographs?

1.) Bibliographical Evidence Test (It answers the questions, what and how many manuscripts do we have? Have they come to us accurately (TEXTUAL TRANSMISSION ACROSS THE MANY LANGUAGES) and how reliable are they? And what significant errors do we find?).




2.) Internal Evidence Test.- It answers the questions, are the Manuscripts that we have (the bibliographical test) credible, and were the NT writers telling the truth (is there information factual?)




3.) External Evidence Test.- This is the key in addition to the others. Is what people wrote exclusively from the document under analysis, or other historical material confirm or deny what is written within the document being tested itself (internal evidence test)?



To all readers
Let me say that I have presented this here before, and will again if necessary. All one simply needs to do is Google, evidence tests of historical documents.

Here is the original post of this thread.

These are sites where Greeks, aspirants, denounced members, pledges, etc. come to discuss many things. I links to these sites for a particular reason. The main purpose which is to see how wicked the sinners are, as they should be, but most of all those who profess to be BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS that DO NOT uphold a BIBILICAL WORLDVIEW, USE PROFANITY, ENGAGE IN PERVERSE CONVERSATIONS, BELIEVE THINGS SUCH AS ABORTION, FORNICATION, HOMOSEXUALITY, ETC. are all legitimate lifestyles of Christians. You have to go there to believe it yourself. So when you get a chance, take a look see.

http://onolympus.proboards.com/index.cgi
www.stophazing.org
www.greekchat.com

Now based on what you have seen here, wold you want to yoke yourself to someone like Sam in a brotherhood, where you would fellowship together, grip one another to show that relationship to be genuine, and have to tolerate his views FOR HE SAKE OF THE FRAT?

I am not talking about the Sam who may be amicable, friendly, etc. I have met many of those who oppose what I do, and only several have had evil intent or to do some harm. I think none of the above about Sam, I am just using him as an example.

Min H.

First, that you for you kind assessment of me. Second, I enjoy my attempts at debating you, though I'm unsuccessful 99.9% of the time.

All organizations to include the Christian Church, Fraternity, Sorority..etc, suffer from the "problems" you've pointed out. Fornication, Rape, Murder, Pedophilia, Homosexuality, Abortion all happen in just about every organization. The reason why, because the aforementioned organizations were all created by men.

Can Christians be a part organizations? I don't see why not. Everyday across this country, our public school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And what do they pledge their allegiance too? A Flag! Does this mean Christian children who recite this pledge are sinners? Absolutely not.

Everyday we use the US currency to purchase goods and services. This currency contains not Christian imagery to include Masonic and Egyptian images. Christian churches collect and use this currency. Does this mean Christians are sinners because we use this currency? Absolutely not.

BGLO were establish at a time when Black 50 years after the Emancipation of the African Slaves. 50 years! Min H., all has to be judge from the context by which it was designed and developed. Although AKA, Omega, Sigma, Zeta were establish within the confines of a HBCU (Howard University), KAPsi, SGRho and APhiA weren't. I could only imaging what these students endured at the PWI during the turn of the 21st century....SMDH The founders of these organization should be applauded for the courage not dismissed because of heraldic imagery which was fashionable during this time period.

I do not ask for anyone to follow me nor believe what and how I believe. My cause is for everyone to educate themselves on what is what; whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism.....etc.

If what you say is true then people will gravitate to you and your message. If not, they will seek their own religious and or spiritual paths. That is what's happening now. With the fleecing of congregants by our own Mega-Churches, pedophilia (Bishop Eddie Long) running rampant in others, many people are turning away from organized religions and whilst looking for something other than the regurgitation of scripture by the church leader(s) every Sunday. Church leaders don't like to here that because THEIR gigs will be eliminated. Their titles( BishopMonseniorPastertheReverend So and So) will be eliminated. The churches are worried since the gravy train is coming to an end. This is where the churches manipulate the meaning of tithing.

In conclusion, let me be clear. Everyone has a right to believe and do what they want in life. Some live righteously, some live foul. I try to live the best life I can: being respectful of those I cross paths with. Hopefully, I will have a chance to meet you in person and listen to what you're saying. Take care.

To answer your question about the billions who do not hear the gospel. Romans 1 and Romans 2 (or better yet, think of your kids). Now it's interesting and another ***** in the armor of flawed logic, double standard in thinking, hypocrisy, or whatever you want to call it. But it's quite amusing to me that you believe what's written BY MEN, SCARED MEN, concerning the Council of Nicea.

How many copies exist for this council? Where are the "minutes" to the meeting(s) they had concerning their discussions? Who were present at this meeting? Any of the Apostles? ANYONE who even made the claim to see Jesus ALIVE, or had DIRECT CONTACT WITH HIM?

You have offered, still offered no substantiation to your claims of knowledge, while God has left you and everyone else with plenty of evidence for His existence.

Min H,

I did not completely understand your first comment. As for the proof of what transpired at the Council of Nicaea, the proof is encased within the book(catalog) you and other modern day Christians call the Bible. This is not a matter of believing IN what scared men, as you refer to them, believe in but what transpired during this meeting and the successive meetings. In addition, the majority of Western Christian Churches use the KJV; King James Version. and we both know what modifications King James made.

I do have a couple of questions.

Are the billions of non-Christian peoples of the world who have no knowledge of Christianity or Jesus, condemned to eternal ****ation upon death?

Is it possible that God manifested herself to other peoples of the world via other religions?

Sam

Sam
"Are the billions of non-Christian peoples of the world who have no knowledge of Christianity or Jesus, condemned to eternal ****ation upon death?"

THIS IS A RED-HERRING: "Also Known as: Smoke Screen, Wild Goose Chase.
Description of Red Herring

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. Topic A is under discussion.
2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
3. Topic A is abandoned.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim." http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

Romans 1
"18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:






Romans 2
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


So all are without excuse, and that surely means billions. I suggest a reading of the Great White Throne of judgment.


Revelation 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Whosoever? Whether that be thousands, millions or billions is not what's important. IT IS YOU SAM WHO ARE DEFINITELY WITHOUT EXCUSE.

As I said at my father's funeral to many in my family, who are you? (after reading Luke 19:16-31). Contained in that is a nice little hint of how people at that time were to know God, "they have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them."

There are many Biblical passages which answer your question, but if you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God, then all I can do is pray and hope one day that you come to know Him according to the truth.



Isaiah 5
14Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.


"This is not a matter of believing IN what scared men, as you refer to them, believe in but what transpired during this meeting and the successive meetings." Sam

And here again is my point.


HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT TRANSPIRED? THE RECORD OF WHAT TRANSPIRED WAS WRITTEN BY MEN, SO HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS RECORDED ACCURATELY? YOUR OWN REASONING COMING BACK AGAIN TO WEAKEN YOUR POINT.


CAN IT BE TRUSTED? DOES IT PASS THE 3 TESTS BY WHICH ALL ANCIENT DOCUMENTS ARE JUDGED SUCCESSFULLY?



Sam
"Is it possible that God manifested herself to other peoples of the world via other religions?"


For the sake of ignoring gender, there are no religions like Christianity. It is unique in its message. absolute in its truth, unrivaled in its reliability, written by multiple authors, over 3 continents, in 3 different languages, yet maintaining unity in its message. Just there is no one like Jesus, there is no document like God's Word.


NO OTHER RELIGIONS CAN BE REVEALED BY THE SAME GOD, FOR HE WOULD BE GUILTY OF LYING ABOUT HIMSELF, MAKING HIM UNTRUE TO HIS NATURE, MAKING HIM A LIAR.



THEREFORE, IT IS MAN WHO IS UNTRUE, MAKING GOD A LIAR.

In conclusion I would like to express that NO TWO RELIGIONS BASED UPON DIFFERENT TRUTHS CAN BE TRUE, BOTH COULD BE WRONG, BUT ONLY ONE CAN BE RIGHT.......... ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!

Since Christianity differs from all others, it's Christianity or one of the others. Based on ALL the historical facts available, I will continue trust in Christianity, for you certainly have offered me nothing in the way of proof, facts, etc. otherwise.

The comment about KJV is a Red-Herring as well. When one looks at other historical documents versus the Ancient Biblical Manuscripts(MSS) becoming the KJV is a marvel. Find me another historical document that is a reliable as the Bible?


Instead of CRITICIZING THE BIBLE SAM, IT'S TIME TO BRING WHAT YOU HAVE TO THE TABLE. LET'S SEE WHAT YOU HAVE SAM????????????

Min H,

No need to yell good brother. I hear you. I actually agree with portions of your latest posts.

Sam

The Great White Throne of Judgment is interesting. However, since much of it's imagery of "hell" is derived from Dante's Inferno and from the Roman/Greek mythology, I don't give it much credence.

In addition, I find is amazing that many Christian proselytizers say that the third party (Dante's Inferno rendition of hell), Gnostic and Apocryphal writings are not part of official Christian church doctrine but yet mysteriously quote from these writings. *shrug*

Historically inaccurate statement about Dante's Inferno around 1300 A.D. and the Great White Throne around 100 A.D.

Let's be honest here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shrugs back.!

Catholicism - Immediately upon death each soul undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon the state of the person's soul, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell.

Eastern Orthodoxy - The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that there are two judgments: the first, or "Particular" Judgment, is that experienced by each individual at the time of his or her death, at which time God will decide where the soul is to spend the time until the Second Coming of Christ (see Hades in Christianity).

Lutherans - do not believe in any sort of earthly millennial kingdom of Christ either before or after his second coming on the last day. On the last day, all the dead will be resurrected.

Millennialism - Particularly among those Protestant groups who adhere to a millennialist eschatology, the Last Judgment is said to be carried out before the Great White Throne by Jesus Christ to either eternal life or eternal consciousness in the lake of fire at the end of time. Salvation is granted by grace
based on the individual's surrender and commitment to Jesus Christ.

Essenes and Rosicrucians—the Spiritualist movement, which includes Christian Science, and some liberal theologies reject the traditional conception of the Last Judgment as inconsistent with an all-just and loving God, in favor of some form of universal salvation.

OK my learned brother. Which of the above versions/variations are correct as it applies the the "Great White Throne? Now be careful. They're all legitimate forms of Christianity though not all are recognized by the Catholic church. So, with that said, is Catholicism the only true Christian religion? If yes, does that mean Protestants, Baptist, Episcopalians are not true Christians? Also, did which version of Christianity did Jesus say we should follow?

Add to that fact that Jesus walk this earth as a Rabbi and the Old Testimate is taken directly from the Torah, are you sure Christians haven't been hoodwinked by a minority of people, basically white males, to do nothing more than to control people and power over the masses?

"In addition, I find is amazing that many Christian proselytizers say that the third party (Dante's Inferno rendition of hell), Gnostic and Apocryphal writings are not part of official Christian church doctrine but yet mysteriously quote from these writings. *shrug*" Sam

I find it more amazing the number of Holy Books that tend to be so similar to scripture, yet no one finds that amazing. But I would like to deal with this notion of the Quoting from other sources. There are many quotes from the Bible that enlist other sources. How does this in anyway take away from the fact of divine inspiration? It doesn't in anyway.

Since Sam as usual offers no proof for his assertions, I will offer it up for him.


Many people claim that Jude quotes from the Book of Enoch, yet there is no proof for such. Similarities of words do not mean a direct quotation, nor does it assume lack of divine inspiration. But what I find amazing is that it is assumed he quoted from the book of Enoch, when we do not even know if it even existed in anyway at that time.

I read the passage where people believe Jude got his quote form the Book of Enoch, but it looks a lot like whoever wrote the Book of Enoch, received their information from Genesis.

To quote from other sources, to include The Lost Books, the Apocrypha, Gnostic and others, IMHO, shows a certain "slight-of-hand" by the quoter(s). The problem that organized religion has to day is that much of the "hidden" writings that church leaders claimed laymen could not understand, are public. What religious people are finding out through independent study is that they each have the ability to understand and commune DIRECTLY with god sans any type of religious beliefs. And that knowledge is a direct threat to organize religion and it's hierarchy.

You chastise the BGLO for their specific rituals when in fact, the all of the Christian rituals, outside of those Pagan rituals incorporated by Constantine at Nicaea, originated in African; as did you Masonic rituals. In addition, the mysticism and mythic allegories contained in the Gnostic writings scared the Romans so much, in their bid to consolidate power, that these books were removed and so-called lost. You're a former member of Omega Psi Phi(happy anniversary) and Master Mason. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

To expect decedents of the enslaved Africans to accept that which was stolen from them in the first place, the concepts of Christianity under the guise of eternal ****ation if we don't, is the biggest hustle of the century. You should be ashamed of yourself spitting that misinformation. You know good and well the the Jews weren't the chosen people of God. From the Pythagorean theory to the writings of Plato, Socrates and the other European greats were stolen directly from the library of Alexandria, Egypt aka African. It is no different with the Bible. The fact that you know that and that is what irritates me because there are people that sincerely listen to what you're saying.

"To Thine Own Self be True"

Teach your followers where this phrase originated. Teach your followers that there were more than Ten Commandments and their origins were from Africa. Teach your followers that all of the Christian Church Holidays originated from the Pagans(People of the Woods).

In conclusion, why should the African(s), and Her decendents of slaves, follow that which was stolen and repackaged into a Eurocentric diaspora in which we must look toward the Jews and the European "White" man for salvation?

Please answer this good brother.

"In conclusion, why should the African(s), and Her decendents of slaves, follow that which was stolen and repackaged into a Eurocentric diaspora in which we must look toward the Jews and the European "White" man for salvation?

Please answer this good brother."

Aside from your answers or post being here, there, and everywhere, you ask a poorly framed question. But I will answer nonetheless.

1.) The very same Africans you accuse of being victims of slavery were once the SLAVE MASTERS FOR MUCH LONGER!!!!!!!!

2.) I agree that Africans should not follow that which was "stolen" from them, IDOLATRY. But this history and culture of IDOLATRY is exactly what AphiA teaches as being its cornerstone.

3.) And we do not ask Africans to follow some Eurocentric, look to the white man for salvation. We (born again believers) ask people to follow Christ. So even if you were to cancel all the books from which Jesus directly speaks (red letters), the whole message needed for salvation would remain intact.

And once again, you only offer your racist, prejudicial remarks with no proof of this being the case.


Now that I answered your question, I would like to answer this.

"What religious people are finding out through independent study is that they each have the ability to understand and commune DIRECTLY with god sans any type of religious beliefs." SAM

If I am incorrect, by all means correct me, BUT ISN'T CHRISTIANITY THE ONLY RELIGION THAT TEACHES OF A SINLESS MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN?

If so, please add this to the list of what makes Christianity UNIQUE.


So the question would be, if Christianity is correct, IT ANSWERS YOUR OWN QUESTION OF THE BILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO IT.

IF CHRISTIANITY IS WRONG, OH WELL, WHO CARES, IT WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON US.

So you want Christianity to concede that its a Pagan Religion just like any other, become a status quo religion and move on? Haven't billions already decided to do so? I will remain on the side of Jesus.

And once again, this God you claim to worship, does he have a name?

How did he/she/it reveal himself to you?

Did you channel his spirit, did he jump into you after reading some gnostic book?

Where did he come from?


JUST NOW I AM BEGINNING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER. YOUR DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD DOES REST UPON SOMETHING. AND ALTHOUGH THIS FOUNDATION IS WEAK, UNRELIABLE, LACKS TRUTH, AND IS NOT HISTORICALLY RELIABLE, YOU BELIEVE IT.................

Min H.,

Here is the difference. It's not racist to call it like it is. Christianity and it's tenets were stolen from the African. That is not fallacy. That is a fact. Christianity was at the forefront of the colonization of Africa by the Europeans who view our ancestors as heathens. Christianity was used to enslave, kill and remove the First Peoples of the Americas. Yes, the African was complicit in the Slave trade.

let me quote this:

"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." -Biko

People have a direct connection to God without going thru any religion. That scares the various religious diasporas around the world. Once lay people understand this, it's over. That does not mean that individuals cannot worship together. However, it means that our religious leaders need to come clean on exactly how it's religious doctrine came about. Stop pointing fingers at BGLOs when your own house is not "clean".

You deny the one of the essential tenets of Christianity, the Blood Atonement of Jesus Christ. You have no facts to back your claim that Christianity stole anything. What's your source???????

I denied nothing. As I've said, everyone can and will believe what they choose. A majority of people are beginning to question man made religion in it's attempt to dictate how, when, to who and to what they should give praise. You yourself agree that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi and that the Old Testimate is the Jewish Torah. How can one be Jewish and Christian? Was Jesus and Jew or was He Christian? He was a Jew. Did Jesus establish Christianity? No, men did. And since these are fact, does that negate what the Mormons believe via there version of Christianity? And finally, which you've never answered, which version of Christianity is the correct one for Christians to follow: Episcopalian, Protestant, Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal?

You ask for proof, well I have provided it to you above. If you don't like what BGLOs represent, kool. But stop bashing them in the name of Jesus. They weren't even in existence. Better yet, you'd need to start with the Catholic Church. They worship relics, shrines and images. Start there good brother.