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Min H.
First, that you for you kind assessment of me. Second, I enjoy my attempts at debating you, though I'm unsuccessful 99.9% of the time.
All organizations to include the Christian Church, Fraternity, Sorority..etc, suffer from the "problems" you've pointed out. Fornication, Rape, Murder, Pedophilia, Homosexuality, Abortion all happen in just about every organization. The reason why, because the aforementioned organizations were all created by men.
Can Christians be a part organizations? I don't see why not. Everyday across this country, our public school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And what do they pledge their allegiance too? A Flag! Does this mean Christian children who recite this pledge are sinners? Absolutely not.
Everyday we use the US currency to purchase goods and services. This currency contains not Christian imagery to include Masonic and Egyptian images. Christian churches collect and use this currency. Does this mean Christians are sinners because we use this currency? Absolutely not.
BGLO were establish at a time when Black 50 years after the Emancipation of the African Slaves. 50 years! Min H., all has to be judge from the context by which it was designed and developed. Although AKA, Omega, Sigma, Zeta were establish within the confines of a HBCU (Howard University), KAPsi, SGRho and APhiA weren't. I could only imaging what these students endured at the PWI during the turn of the 21st century....SMDH The founders of these organization should be applauded for the courage not dismissed because of heraldic imagery which was fashionable during this time period.
I do not ask for anyone to follow me nor believe what and how I believe. My cause is for everyone to educate themselves on what is what; whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism.....etc.
If what you say is true then people will gravitate to you and your message. If not, they will seek their own religious and or spiritual paths. That is what's happening now. With the fleecing of congregants by our own Mega-Churches, pedophilia (Bishop Eddie Long) running rampant in others, many people are turning away from organized religions and whilst looking for something other than the regurgitation of scripture by the church leader(s) every Sunday. Church leaders don't like to here that because THEIR gigs will be eliminated. Their titles( BishopMonseniorPastertheReverend So and So) will be eliminated. The churches are worried since the gravy train is coming to an end. This is where the churches manipulate the meaning of tithing.
In conclusion, let me be clear. Everyone has a right to believe and do what they want in life. Some live righteously, some live foul. I try to live the best life I can: being respectful of those I cross paths with. Hopefully, I will have a chance to meet you in person and listen to what you're saying. Take care.
To answer your question about the billions who do not hear the gospel. Romans 1 and Romans 2 (or better yet, think of your kids). Now it's interesting and another ***** in the armor of flawed logic, double standard in thinking, hypocrisy, or whatever you want to call it. But it's quite amusing to me that you believe what's written BY MEN, SCARED MEN, concerning the Council of Nicea.
How many copies exist for this council? Where are the "minutes" to the meeting(s) they had concerning their discussions? Who were present at this meeting? Any of the Apostles? ANYONE who even made the claim to see Jesus ALIVE, or had DIRECT CONTACT WITH HIM?
You have offered, still offered no substantiation to your claims of knowledge, while God has left you and everyone else with plenty of evidence for His existence.
Min H,
I did not completely understand your first comment. As for the proof of what transpired at the Council of Nicaea, the proof is encased within the book(catalog) you and other modern day Christians call the Bible. This is not a matter of believing IN what scared men, as you refer to them, believe in but what transpired during this meeting and the successive meetings. In addition, the majority of Western Christian Churches use the KJV; King James Version. and we both know what modifications King James made.
I do have a couple of questions.
Are the billions of non-Christian peoples of the world who have no knowledge of Christianity or Jesus, condemned to eternal ****ation upon death?
Is it possible that God manifested herself to other peoples of the world via other religions?
Sam
The comment about KJV is a Red-Herring as well. When one looks at other historical documents versus the Ancient Biblical Manuscripts(MSS) becoming the KJV is a marvel. Find me another historical document that is a reliable as the Bible?
Instead of CRITICIZING THE BIBLE SAM, IT'S TIME TO BRING WHAT YOU HAVE TO THE TABLE. LET'S SEE WHAT YOU HAVE SAM????????????
Min H,
No need to yell good brother. I hear you. I actually agree with portions of your latest posts.
Sam
The Great White Throne of Judgment is interesting. However, since much of it's imagery of "hell" is derived from Dante's Inferno and from the Roman/Greek mythology, I don't give it much credence.
In addition, I find is amazing that many Christian proselytizers say that the third party (Dante's Inferno rendition of hell), Gnostic and Apocryphal writings are not part of official Christian church doctrine but yet mysteriously quote from these writings. *shrug*
Catholicism - Immediately upon death each soul undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon the state of the person's soul, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell.
Eastern Orthodoxy - The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that there are two judgments: the first, or "Particular" Judgment, is that experienced by each individual at the time of his or her death, at which time God will decide where the soul is to spend the time until the Second Coming of Christ (see Hades in Christianity).
Lutherans - do not believe in any sort of earthly millennial kingdom of Christ either before or after his second coming on the last day. On the last day, all the dead will be resurrected.
Millennialism - Particularly among those Protestant groups who adhere to a millennialist eschatology, the Last Judgment is said to be carried out before the Great White Throne by Jesus Christ to either eternal life or eternal consciousness in the lake of fire at the end of time. Salvation is granted by grace
based on the individual's surrender and commitment to Jesus Christ.
Essenes and Rosicrucians—the Spiritualist movement, which includes Christian Science, and some liberal theologies reject the traditional conception of the Last Judgment as inconsistent with an all-just and loving God, in favor of some form of universal salvation.
OK my learned brother. Which of the above versions/variations are correct as it applies the the "Great White Throne? Now be careful. They're all legitimate forms of Christianity though not all are recognized by the Catholic church. So, with that said, is Catholicism the only true Christian religion? If yes, does that mean Protestants, Baptist, Episcopalians are not true Christians? Also, did which version of Christianity did Jesus say we should follow?
Add to that fact that Jesus walk this earth as a Rabbi and the Old Testimate is taken directly from the Torah, are you sure Christians haven't been hoodwinked by a minority of people, basically white males, to do nothing more than to control people and power over the masses?
"In conclusion, why should the African(s), and Her decendents of slaves, follow that which was stolen and repackaged into a Eurocentric diaspora in which we must look toward the Jews and the European "White" man for salvation?
Please answer this good brother."
Aside from your answers or post being here, there, and everywhere, you ask a poorly framed question. But I will answer nonetheless.
1.) The very same Africans you accuse of being victims of slavery were once the SLAVE MASTERS FOR MUCH LONGER!!!!!!!!
2.) I agree that Africans should not follow that which was "stolen" from them, IDOLATRY. But this history and culture of IDOLATRY is exactly what AphiA teaches as being its cornerstone.
3.) And we do not ask Africans to follow some Eurocentric, look to the white man for salvation. We (born again believers) ask people to follow Christ. So even if you were to cancel all the books from which Jesus directly speaks (red letters), the whole message needed for salvation would remain intact.
And once again, you only offer your racist, prejudicial remarks with no proof of this being the case.
Now that I answered your question, I would like to answer this.
"What religious people are finding out through independent study is that they each have the ability to understand and commune DIRECTLY with god sans any type of religious beliefs." SAM
If I am incorrect, by all means correct me, BUT ISN'T CHRISTIANITY THE ONLY RELIGION THAT TEACHES OF A SINLESS MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN?
If so, please add this to the list of what makes Christianity UNIQUE.
So the question would be, if Christianity is correct, IT ANSWERS YOUR OWN QUESTION OF THE BILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO IT.
IF CHRISTIANITY IS WRONG, OH WELL, WHO CARES, IT WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON US.
So you want Christianity to concede that its a Pagan Religion just like any other, become a status quo religion and move on? Haven't billions already decided to do so? I will remain on the side of Jesus.
And once again, this God you claim to worship, does he have a name?
How did he/she/it reveal himself to you?
Did you channel his spirit, did he jump into you after reading some gnostic book?
Where did he come from?
JUST NOW I AM BEGINNING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER. YOUR DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD DOES REST UPON SOMETHING. AND ALTHOUGH THIS FOUNDATION IS WEAK, UNRELIABLE, LACKS TRUTH, AND IS NOT HISTORICALLY RELIABLE, YOU BELIEVE IT.................
Min H.,
Here is the difference. It's not racist to call it like it is. Christianity and it's tenets were stolen from the African. That is not fallacy. That is a fact. Christianity was at the forefront of the colonization of Africa by the Europeans who view our ancestors as heathens. Christianity was used to enslave, kill and remove the First Peoples of the Americas. Yes, the African was complicit in the Slave trade.
let me quote this:
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." -Biko
People have a direct connection to God without going thru any religion. That scares the various religious diasporas around the world. Once lay people understand this, it's over. That does not mean that individuals cannot worship together. However, it means that our religious leaders need to come clean on exactly how it's religious doctrine came about. Stop pointing fingers at BGLOs when your own house is not "clean".
Allow me to analyze some of your past statements that I never responded to on purpose.
Sam
"We (You included) do not know if Jesus said that He was the only way."
Min. H
Sam, you claim that you KNOW Jesus is not the only way. YOU JUST MADE AN ABSOLUTE STATEMENT. Here is where your logic goes bad. You tell me that I can't possibly know or believe something based on whatever you believe, BUT that what you say is sure and true. Wow, that is either hypocrisy, but for sure a double standard.
Proving the negative (Jesus IS NOT the only way) is BAD LOGIC. That's like a man telling you to prove that he can't fly.” I hope I have never asked you to prove a negative.
Sam
“1. Who decides which teachings are divinely inspired of God and which are "truth"?
Min. H
Both would be the same. Jesus said I am Truth, so who do you think decided? Men never claimed that they determined divine inspiration, but gave that glory to God alone.
Sam
2. Do we have a direct connection to God sans Christian Religion or any other religion?
Min. H
Depends on what you mean? Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man. He has the scars to prove it. Jesus said He is the only way to God. So no, it requires a belief in Him.
1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
But I guess this part of the Bible, like John 14:6 must be corrupt.
Watch his hypocrisy below (IN BOLD) as he mentions an occurrence in the Bible, and the surety that it happened. Who wrote it Sam? How do you know it can be trusted?
"Since all religions are "man-made", they are all corrupted on some level. Jesus understood this and that is why he threw the gentlemen out of the temple." SAM
He even gives the SCRIPTURES CREDENCE as he states that Jesus UNDERSTOOD THIS??????? Wow! That is a statement of trust and belief of what is written in the Bible. So Jesus understood this, but went batty when He claimed that the temple was His Father's House?
How do you know he understood this?
You claim later that,
"Jesus is Love, Anything other than that is a man made embellishment." SAM
Does love throw people out of the temple? How come He didn't go in talk to the men and convince them to leave. Oh Sammy! By giving credence to this, then why not the WHOLE INCIDENT?????????
Sam
2. Since all religions are "man-made", they are all corrupted on some level. Jesus understood this and that is why he threw the gentlemen out of the temple.
Min. H
Since all religions are "man-made"- Another statement of absolute truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So the scripture about the temple, which reveals who Jesus really is, must be partly corrupt, right Sam? The bible authors wrote one thing as true, and in the next sentence it's completely fiction? THAT'S LIKE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE. Spin, Click, truth! Spin, Click, truth! Spin, Boom, corrupt!
SO HOW DO YOU, SAM, DETERMINE WHAT IS CORRUPT AND WHAT IS NOT??????
Jesus is the founder of the Christian faith. He did not throw the people out of the temple for that reason, the Bible describes the EXACT reason He did it. But hold on, how can you even trust your reasoning from a book that you claim must be corrupt or MAN-MADE? Ah! The real logic of Sam is unraveling itself.
Sam replied, but did not answer these questions, so his posts were deleted. He decided to respond to,
"Jesus is the founder of the Christian faith. He did not throw the people out of the temple for that reason, the Bible describes the EXACT reason He did it. But hold on, how can you even trust your reasoning from a book that you claim must be corrupt or MAN-MADE? Ah! The real logic of Sam is unraveling itself." Min. H
I took his response, copied it, and re-posted my question.
"First, and I was going to put this last, you have never answered SEVERAL questions throughout this whole thread.
WHERE IS THE WRITTEN RECORD FOR YOUR BELIEFS?
WHERE DID YOUR GOD COME FROM?" Fred
Every person has a direct connection to God without any using any religious dogma.
Min H,
Every belief is not written in a book. Every belief, written by the European, is not correct. To you that may sound racist. However, that is a fact. Many beliefs are passed down via oral tradition. In some parts of Africa, they're passed down by Griots. In Native peoples, by Shamans. The list goes on.
My point is that all religious rituals and traditions, no matter which doctrine we're speaking of, were made by men who decided how we, they lay person, should praise God. Jesus never said study the Bible because it did not exist. But church leadership says that we should. Jesus never celebrated the Mass. But yet, in the Catholic church and it's offshoots, it is celebrated. Jesus never said that we must tithe. But many church leaders continue to misconstrue the Old Testimates' meaning in order to pay salaries, mortgages, car notes. Some tell the truth: if we do not received donations, we cannot keep the lights, heat and other things going which allow the physical church to exists. I have no problem contributing when put like that.
God created man. Societies have existed at least 10,000 years before the Europeans came into existence. The Mayan, Native Peoples, Africans, Orientals(with written records) and East Indians to name but a few. Forgive me if I'm skeptical when a group of men say the past is wrong and you must follow me or you're going to hell.
But guess what? Each of the aforementioned peoples have something in common. Each suffered at the hands of Europeans under the banner of Christianity. How do you reconcile this history? Jesus would never advocate this type of behavior.
But here is a scripture I like: "Jesus said: The Pharisees and the scribes have receive the keys of knowledge; they have hidden them. They did not go in, and those who wanted to go in they did not allow. But you be ye wise as serpents and innocent as doves."
God Is.
Sam said,
"Min H,
Every belief is not written in a book. Every belief, written by the European, is not correct. To you that may sound racist. However, that is a fact. Many beliefs are passed down via oral tradition. In some parts of Africa, they're passed down by Griots. In Native peoples, by Shamans. The list goes on."
My point exactly Sam, so God would have an accurate oral record of Himself. So I guess God goes around lying to people saying that polygamy is okay, to another it's not, fornication and adultery is okay, to another it's not, that committing suicide is rewarded for some, and others it's not. And the big one, that human sacrifices are necessary, while to others it's not.
But there are two things that these ORAL TRADITIONS can be held accountable to; something I have been trying to tell you, AN ACCURATE HISTORICAL RECORD. So in reality, what you are saying about any faith or spiritual system, including yours is that it is God's fault for all the killing due to differences in spirituality. The other is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The Griots can not have one belief and the Shamans an exact opposite and both be correct.
The problem with spirituality is that it foolishly IGNORES or REJECTS reality and defies logic.
There can only be one truth giver, and those truths will NEVER EVER CONTRADICT.
GOD IS WHAT?
Where is your proof that He is?????????