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You will see that many greeks (Christians) do not see masonry as ungodly either, yet do it with no idea of what the are really about (i.e. JUDGING) without the facts. If they condemn masonry, then they know that they must condemn their organizations as well. In this case the children (GLO's) have continued in the sinful nature of their father (the masonic order). Check out the lame excuses about ohter gods and various beliefs being accepted. There is no encouragement by Christians in these organizations to change the beliefs of their fellow brothers and sisters. The same is true in GLO's. If you wnat to be a jehovah's witness, muslim, etc. it fine with them. Do you think the Christians in these groups have the courage to tell their soror or bruh that they will not enter the Kingdom by believing in ALLAH or that Jesus is just a god? Soul winners only when the turf is easy. They are not WILLING to be tossed in the fire and engage in the battle of a war against SATAN. A greek organization is a nice place for them to cozy up and rub shoulders. They don't want to fight the good fight of faith. If so, then they would prove their mettle by dealing with some of the fiercest immorality going on in our community. But where are they, never seen and never heard. Now I am not talking about seeking fame and fortune, but infamy and shame to take on real life problems that do have ETERNAL consequences.
You will see that many greeks (Christians) do not see masonry as ungodly either, yet do it with no idea of what the are really about (i.e. JUDGING) without the facts. If they condemn masonry, then they know that they must condemn their organizations as well.
This is because at least 1 founder from each of the 9 BGLOs had participated in masonry and thus incorporated the same types of things into their rituals. You're right, they couldn't say something is wrong with masonry and not say the same about their organizations b/c their organizations are so similiar. BUT it just came to mind that I a young lady, I think she posted on this site, said that masonry is wrong and that is what you should be exposing and not their organizations. She was evidently just trying to toss the blame and clearly didn't understand what she was involved in. Restoration is highly needed.
You said: "Do you think the Christians in these groups have the courage to tell their soror or bruh that they will not enter the Kingdom by believing in ALLAH or that Jesus is just a god?"
Yes Rev. Hatchett, we do! Rev. Hatchett, you said that you were once an Omega. If that's the case, then you must be aware of the fierce internal debates that occur within the membership of BGLO's, especially among Omega men. Even within my own chapter, we've had some rather intense "discussions" about Islam vs. Christianity, freemasonry, etc. We've even had a couple of Bruhs caught up in this whole "The Da Vinci Code" thang and that's caused some MAJOR verbal exchanges. Of course, this can result in a lot of hurt feelings, but as I was told when I crossed, you can't be "thin-skinned" and be a Que......
You also said "They don't want to fight the good fight of faith. If so, then they would prove their mettle by dealing with some of the fiercest immorality going on in our community. But where are they, never seen and never heard."
Rev. Hatchett, that's a very big generalazation. Besides, you answered your own question on this one. There are plenty of BGLO's out in the community battling against some of the "fiercest immorality", but we will never know their names because, as you say, THEY DON'T SEEK FAME AND FORTUNE. That's whey they are "never seen and never heard". They aren't running around fighting the battle with their BLGO paraphanelia on or bringing attention to themselves... ....they just fight the good fight and let GOD give them the glory. They are unsung heroes who get no public recognition, and by the way, I count my own mother among this group.
There have been so many times when I've looked at the obituary of an old Christian soldier/activist and been surprised. I would say, "Man, I didn't know he was a Kappa or wow, I had no idea he was an Alpha, or "She was an AKA? ". Why? Because they fought the good fight and focused on CHRIST, not on who they were. Unsung Christian warriors who are in BLGO's are all around us, Rev. Hatchett. Just because some claim not to "see" them does not mean they don't exist.....
Show me where I said that there are BGLO members fighting against fierce immorality. Anything that you have quoted, please substantiate.
And just because they are listed in the paper does not mean they were faithful members or in members in heart either. But look at the difference to how your fraternity treats those guys as opposed to the famous compromisers. The fraternity itself is hypocritical by NOT recognizing its Christian Soldiers in LIFE. Now I believe you are generalizing as well. There is only 3 people on this site who has stood for TRUTH. MANY HAVE STOOD FOR THEIR GLO's, but have not fought worthy battles here for TRUTH. This includes you. Even after we had a good discussion, you came here and acted like we never talked. So you keep doing whatever it is you are doing. But Omega IS and WILL CONTINUE to teach its lies until you all DO something about it. You are right there at the National Office. DO SOMETHING!!!!!
And by the way, are you arguing in favor of or against freemasonry?
Now you know by now that I like a good debate! LOL! It ain't nuthin' personal. Our discussion was good and I appreciated the chance to speak with you. We are actually in agreement with you on some other topics you've debated on this site with others, but when it comes to BGLO's, I just had to jump back into the fray.....
Freemasonry? Although historically their members have done some great things for us as a people, I'm very suspicious of it, especially the "levels" and "degrees". Although I still have fond memories of my great grandmother in her "Easter Star" uniform, I would probably list myself as "against".
One thing that always fascinates me about you is your degree of certainty. But one thing that we do as human beings (and I'm guilty of it also) is to put people into our little "boxes" based on how we feel about an issue, while totally ignoring the complexities of human and organizational behavior. One thing I've learned in my 40-some years on this earth is that the actions and psyche of human beings are far too complex to fit into our own personal worldview. And the bad part is, when people act in ways that don't fit in our personal box, we rationalize their behavior by saying things about BGLO members like " And just because they are listed in the paper does not mean they were faithful members or in members in heart either" or as I saw on one Website, "The only reason Barack Obama is so intelligent and articulate is that he's half-white."
For example, I am engaged in what could be called "progressive politics" in my local area. Yet I'm fervently anti-abortion. That just throws my fellow "progressive politicos" into a state of confusion. I don't fit into what their definition and their "box" of a "progressive activist" should be. What they don't realize is that I come out of the Black church tradition where we were politically progressive but theologically conservative in terms of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. One day they'll learn that people don't always act in ways that we think they will based on political or organizational affiliation. Just when you think you have somebody pegged, they'll do something that will completely surprise you!
The point is, just because Rev. Hatchett says something about BGLO members does not make it their reality any more than what I say about BGLO members makes it their realtiy. People and situations are far too complex for that. If anyone wants to play the role of a "James Bond" villian and try to dominate the world with your own worldview, give it your best shot.....you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments and surprises!!!
I want to speak about somethng kinda brief if I might. Now as you all know I myself am a Prince Hall Mason. Now if I was Pastor of my church would it be fair to say that freemasonry gave birth to that church or that the church is linked to freemasonry? Of course not. So in all fairness to freemasonry and BGLO's, would it be fair to say that just because some of their founders were Masons that freemasonry gave birth to bglo's? Absolutely not. Some of the founders of the Skull and Bones organizations were Masons but that doesn't mean that freemasonry gave birth to that either. All of these are isolated incidents that have nothing to do with the other. Unless we have talked to the founders of all bglo's it would be wrong to try to say what their agenda was when they founded these organizations. For all we know when they founded these bglo's freemasonry might have been the last thing on their minds at that time.
P.S. Even though garages are made for cars, if I stood in one does that make me a Range Rover? Just because bglo's have founders that are masons does that make bglo's the children of freemasonry?
I do not base their ties to freemasonry on the fact that their founders were. Everything has a root. So one has to ask the question, WHERE DID Freemasonry come from?
I was kinda making my response to those who say that Freemasonry is the father of BGLO's and zbglo's are rooted in Freemasonry.
Who said freemasonry is the father of BGLOs? And also, I don't know if it was AAB357 who said that Christian glos are just trying to live out their desire for greek life through a Christian sorority/fraternity, but let me say this: that statement can also be true for the BGLOs which came about b/c you all were'nt accepted in the white glos--the initial reason for starting your own bglos was not "for my own people" type of thing but moreso b/c you all couldn't get in with the whites so the bglo thing is just a form of trying to live out their desire for greek life. Let's get it right. AND the thing with cglos is that SOME of them understand taking what the devil meant for bad and using it for good--for God's glory.
You ain't even gotta holla back at that one cuz.
I actually want to ask some of the Black greeks here. Why the secrecy? What was the purpose of having secrets? The same question really applies to any secret society of a fraternal nature. As for freemasonry being a progenitor of GLO's, it is true and I have and know of the evidence to prove it.
Hmmmm.....I don't know about that one. Do you realize how many black institutions were created as a result of segregation??? How were the Black students in 1906 and 1911 supposed to deal with the isolation they felt on White campuses? What support system did they have??? If you think attending a Predominantly white college is tough now, imagine what it was like back then in the early 1900's!!! What were Blacks back then supposed to do.....wait for whites to accept us before we did anything??? For example, let's transpose your words and substitute colleges for BGLO's.
"which came about b/c you all were'nt accepted in the white colleges--the initial reason for starting your own colleges was not "for my own people" type of thing but moreso b/c you all couldn't get in with the whites so the college thing is just a form of trying to live out their desire for an education. Let's get it right."
Dang right they didn't wait on white people's acceptance to take action.....and I'm glad they didn't!!! Besides, it sounds pretty presumptuous to assume that we in the 21st century could know why any Black person started anything in the later part of the 19th century or early part of the 20th century. Despite racism's continued presence in this country, the conditions under which they existed are far different than anything we have ever had to face. Despite facing brutally enforced segregation, lynchings, horrific bigotry, and Jim Crow laws, our people did survive (and thrive) by starting their own thing, whether it was colleges, businesses, BGLO's, sports teams, music, etc...and whatever we did had more "Flava"!
Besides, my BGLO started on the campus of an HBCU, so I don't know what white people were around to try to "get in" with.....
Let me attempt to answer your question about the secrecy. In the fraternity we call each other brothers, which denotes family. And in every family, there are those things, good and bad, that are supposed to stay within the family.
For example, there are certain aspects of the relationship I have with my wife that are are NOT privy to the outside world. Same thing applies to the relationship I have with my kids. Why? Because we are family and certain things are private and should stay within the family.
The general public does NOT need to see my will, the general public does NOT need to know the social security numbers of my wife and kids. The general public does NOT need to know what my wife writes in her personal diary. The general public does NOT need to know what my wife and I say to each other in our marriage bed every night. The general public does NOT need to see our personal financial records or tax returns. Why? Because people of bad intentions will use that information for all sorts of negative reasons, such as identity theft, gossip, slander, and will twist any words we have written or said and twist it into a negative light. If you're not a member of my family, you have no idea why we do the things we do. And anything that people don't understand, they will abuse.
The same logic applies to BGLO's. And that's why there is a need for discretion.
Yep. Anytime someone starts poking around and asking questions about things that are private, I will suspect their motives. For example, when a telemarketer calls and ask for my social security number for "identification purposes", I know he/she is up to no good. Generally when people probe you for private information, their motives are suspect. So their is definitely a NEED for discretion on our parts in dealing with people who ask for private information. You have to have the wisdom to know who to reveal things to and who NOT to reveal things to.
Of course,BGLO's do have some secrecy, and the good or bad of that is debatable of course. But anytime someone starts to probe into things that are reserved for privacy among the membership, of course we are going to be suspicious of them. Why willingly put private information in the hands of those who will abuse it unless you're up to no good??
I will concede the Freemasonry point to Rev. Hatchett. Not only did Freemasonry influence the formation of GLO's, but Freemansonry and their members have had some influence in the formation of nearly all major institutions in the United States, from the way our goverment buildings are shaped, what's on our money, certain words in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the way higher education was enacted, and even the way baseball is played (heavy masonic symbolism). There are very few public (or private) institutions in America today that don't have some sort of Freemasonry influence, so Rev. Hatchett may have a valid point on that one.
Well there were many U.S. presidents who were masons.
"ME" I apologize if I made my statement too general. Now when I said that CGLO's were tryin to live their D9 greek fantasies through the cglo's this is what I meant. (only speaking about my area) If a cglo is gonna haze, wear greek letters, do calls and steps just like regular D9 orgs then what makes them so special? the only thing I do know is that they have removed the parts of the D9 stuff that they think are wrong and thats the rituals and replaced them with Christian principles and scriptures and teachings. Its like a greek org with bibles study attatched to it. And when I say some cglo's do haze i'm speaking on fact cause on here at a school in my state JUST got in trouble for hazing.
It's okay AAB357 and I have heard about a cglo hazing, but so far as this.
If a cglo is gonna haze, wear greek letters, do calls and steps just like regular D9 orgs then what makes them so special? the only thing I do know is that they have removed the parts of the D9 stuff that they think are wrong and thats the rituals and replaced them with Christian principles and scriptures and teachings. Its like a greek org with bibles study attatched to it.
Without the hazing, that stuff is fine if they are trying to live out 1 Corinthians 9:20-22 (*vs.22) by taking what the devil meant for bad and using it for good that God would be glorified, BUT their ultimate purpose must be WINNING SOULS! Those other things would just be the gravy on the potatoes so to speak.
The problem is that when we see and hear of bad things we just look at that and don't get in tune with the whole spiritual side of it all, so if glo look bad then we label EVERYTHING they do as bad: stepping, doing a call, come on now, music and dance is used to praise God and it was used as such before the Lucifer became the devil. Like, (I like to use this example as you can see) people say rap is bad; rap is NOT bad it's what you rap about--think about it, rappers rapping about their testimony and the power of God and how people need to be saved---that's not going to make someone want to go sin! AND I do know of rappers who rap about these things it's called "gospel rap" so preachers who preach against this are only looking in the physical and only taking what's thrown at them and not looking at the other side. You know when the electric slide came out, the minster of music at my church did a gospel version years before the electric slide came out, but a "religious" person who doesn't know that would say that our church is being worldly for singing AND DANCING to the song that he wrote YEARS B4 THE ELECTRIC SLIDE CAME OUT. Ok, I'm getting off topic, but I hope you all see my point.
I see your point.
"Big Sisters should have had some type of conversation about the safety of driving etc. Both parties are to blame."
Say word. If you are going to "coordinate" such activities, one should do what they can to avoid senseless violence/injuries to their pledgees/intake candidates if for no other reason but to avoid getting their letters snatched.
Don't get me wrong, candidates should exercise intelligence and share in accountability for such incidents. But good risk management would suggest that one cover all bases just in case you have that one candidate who doesn’t act accordingly or whose judgment is impaired.
[ 08-29-2005, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Elegance1913 ]
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"Do you think the Christians in these groups have the courage to tell their soror or bruh that they will not enter the Kingdom by believing in ALLAH or that Jesus is just a god?"
You probably think Allah is the name of the Muslim God, instead of it being a translation of the meaning God in Arabic. Don't worry, many ignorant fools does the same thing.