You're right DJ, anything can be an idol, but God tells us not to let anything become an idol, He tells us not to worship God and mammon. He says that we shall have no other gods before Him (or beside Him, who or what can we equate to the Almighty?). God bless.

So hello again, 1omegaman, it really has been a while:

I hear what you are saying, and I get it that you possibly have some "iffy" mindset towards certain things in the Bible. I know some pastors tell us not to question God, but we are not to question His authority--that's different. We can request that God would help us to understand those things that just don't make sense to us--He knows that in ourself some things just don't make sense. But when we are reading something of a Higher Power (God--the only Higher Power) we must have the understanding of that Higher Power so we need to ask Him to open our understanding everytime we read His Word before we start reading. Read the first chapter of James.

So your point about slavery was something that I had questioned in the past also. God does not like such things because they are ungodly, this is why He has granted freedom to those who were slaves. Look at how he used Moses to display His power and let the people know Who He really is. Sometimes just telling about God's power means nothing compared to going through something and then experiencing it for yourself. That is not to excuse slavery. But anyway, God was saying that while you are in slavery, until I bring you out, be obedient, and remember "vengence is Mine, I will repay" I'm not sure, but I think that slaves then were given some type of weak payment, so it was almost consentful, I guess, because their class or demographical status didn't allow for them to do more. Whether now or later those who have a heart to rule the world as if they are God will be repaid. Also, some are paying now, the wages (pay) of sin is death. This is not always a physical death, that's the only thing people can think about when they read that scripture, but this also means that while we are still living people can have a spiritual death and separation from God. God says that He will not put His Holy Spirit in an unclean temple. God and the devil cannot dwell in the same temple, when we submit to one the other has to leave. People always say, "resist the devil and he will flee" the first part of that very same scripture says, "submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee" This tells us that before we can resist the devil we must submit to God. So those who take others to be there slaves, in my opinion, are not submitting to God, but the devil because the Bible says that a laborer is worthy of his wages and that those who are the sons of God shall be led by the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit does not lead us into doing evil things.

I hope that helped. I don't know how that may have effected your outlook on what God was really saying, but I hope it did.

God bless you 110 fold,
Let God be glorified.... TODAY!

Me- "iffy". Naw, I wouldn't say "iffy" but honest. you said,
"So those who take others to be there slaves, in my opinion, are not submitting to God, but the devil because the Bible says that a laborer is worthy of his wages and that those who are the sons of God shall be led by the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit does not lead us into doing evil things."

Your "opinion" says one thing and the scripture says quite another please read verse 9 of that verse.
My point is that you should rightly divide the Bible. Anybody can cut and paste scriptures to suit their purpose.

The Bible is a powerful book and I have studied it and prayed. In all honesty, Jesus did not author not one book in the bible. Everything that he is reported to have said is a quote from a third party. I believe that it was inspired by God but I also believe due to studying, seeking and gaining through Divine revelation to me, that the point of the Bible was to steer you to God. Once you have made liaison with him, its up to you to maintain a clear channel of communication between yourself and Him. The authority of God is not boxed up in a nice neat little package called the bible. His authority is far more infinite than that. Besides, if the Bible was God's only authority then that would mean everyone who could not read would be doomed to eternal ****ation. Jesus once said, "Search the scriptures because in them you think you have eternal life.". . .You "think" you have eternal life.
You tell me that the Bible is God's "authority". Where's that scripture? And when did God ordain it as such? We have a clear line to God through prayer and fasting. Is that not why Jesus came, to relieve us of middle men. I talk to God everyday and He reveals things to me that I dare not tell anyone else because it may cause them to stumble in their spiritual walk. God longs to have us not keep a stand offish relationship with him. We are his children and He loves us.

Oh no, 1omegaman, I am not saying that the Bible is God's authority and you may be right, I don't think that's in the Bible, but that's not what I was saying. I was saying that some pastors tell people not to ? God's authority (which may be exemplified in the Word, but is not limited to His Word), but part of my point is that we are able to ask questions of God (asking Him directly) if we don't understand, otherwise how else will we understand?

Let God be glorified

1omegaman,

Before we keep responding I think we both may need to reread each of our posts that we posted to each other because we pretty much get each other whether we agree or not, but there are very few misunderstandings that we are having about each others responses. Just a suggestion to atleast skim through.

Praise God

I want to get Minister Hatchetts repsonse to some of these post?

Also I would encourage all Christians to expand your study beyond the the Bible, I took a World Religions course and it opened my mind up so much. We are all equal seekers of the Truth, so before we get ready to say someone or some people are "off" let's first understand how they got to their understanding it may not be as "off" as we think it is.

I would have to say that I agree with 1OmegaMan. He will always and forever be a QUE. If he chooses not to have anything to do with the organization is his business, and if he doesn't that is ok, but you can not bash those who decide to go a different way from you. You are but a disciple of God, and as a disciple how can you sit here and condemn and thrash those that are a greek organization just because of the fact that they are in a greek organization. As long as a person decides to live their life as close to the Word of God as they can and God knows their heart and that they are trying then He will love them just the same and you, nor anyone else that hates GLO's can take that away from them. So all of the bashing in the world isn't going to change anything.

So I guess if I were a dope smoker, I will always be one. This is the BONDAGE that CULTS promote. This mindset gives people the idea that God is EVIDENTLY unable to deliver. I guess I will always be a fornicator. I guess God never delivered me from that or drunkeness either, so I still must be a drunk. You Christians who engender this type of mindset are VICARIOUSLY unaware that you have been brainwashed into believing this. It was either by a pledge process or hearing this mantra enough times to the point you became the mindset. This "ONCE ONE ALWAYS ONE" foolishness is shaking a fist in the face of God by saying He can't deliver you from that which you wish to be delivered. You do not know how often I recognize the lingo of a well made slave(pledge). ALways putting INC. on the end of your GLO, when PROUDLY proclaiming the name, spewing out that you will always be greek. Sorry, I STOPPED being an Omega 10 (Happy Denunciation Anniversary) years ago.

So what does this have to do with what to ask at an interest meeting? ALOT!! ASK WHAT WILL BE REQUIRED OF YOU BETWEEN "NOW" AND "INITIATION" IF THEY TRY TO GET YOU AND OTHERS TO FORM A GROUP "BEFORE" AN INTEREST MEETING, YOU'RE ASKING FOR TROUBLE!!!!! ASK THEM WHAT YOU WILL HAVE TO SWEAR TO, BE REQUIRED OR EXPECTED TO DO. THESE ARE JUST SOME HELPFUL TIPS FOR THE KEPT IGNORANT BY GLO'S POTENTIALS. I am surely glad of one thing: that there were before me, with me and to come after me those willing to expose GLO's. This simply means that this move of God was long before I came on the scene, so I have no cause to boast, brag or be prideful. I am just thankful for those who escape the spiritual, mental and physical devastation.


JUST A LITTLE SIDE NOTE ANNOUNCEMENT- I will be bringing to this site some very interesting points. Here is one example: I have talked to many Christians in GLO's who are no longer financial, active, etc. They also must have quickly forgotten their oaths they swore to be claiming to Jehovah. Soon after the flavor is gone, so is the need to fulfill that oath. Things that make you go HMMM!!!!! Then you have those who fulfill their oaths, even when they conflict with God's Word. HMMMMM!!!!!

Okay. I've had a really interesting (and LOOONG) time reading these posts. I applaud SOME of you all's articulation (and even manipulation in some cases) of the bible and it's scriptures. I am not a GLO member, but I plan to be. The bible does not tell us to stay away from sinners. It's their WAYS we should avoid. It is not wrong to fellowship with them and promise to help them when they ask you for it or you feel they need it.

As I said, I'm not in a GLO, so ya'll can correct me if I"m wrong, but to my understanding: It seems to me that the misconception of these organizations are that everyone who participates in them are making a covenant TO the sinners. You are not directly in a covenant to be a heathen like your line sisters/brothers who are unsaved. They're your sisters and brothers because they pledged at the same time that you did that they wanted to be a part of something that has been created to help the community and each other in areas in which they are lacking. Just like when other people took that walk with me to the altar (yes I'm saved before anyone asks HA HA ), doesn't mean that I inherit all their shortfalls because we aren't coming to each other. We're coming at the same time to do something for our own individual good. But as a member of the family, we agree to help each other out where we can. I feel it's the same way when you go Greek. You are not pledging TO each other. You're pledging WITH each other to the idea of working for the greater good of yourself, each other, the community, the world.

These organizations are supposed to be 'business first'. What happens in individual chapters gives people their own opinions, but some of the posts against GLOs are waaaay to generalized to appeal to a mass audience (as someone said before. I can't remember who). That may be because people who have had bad experiences tend to focus on the bad and have a hard time seeing all the good. I don't plan on growing further from God because even though the promise I will make to my chosen BGLO will become a big part of my college and life experience, it will never be bigger than my covenant with God. I know there is life after my BGLO days.

What "Me" said was true. (In my own words) God will not look at your intentions or your mind-set. He will look at your actions. If your with a BGLO and you live for him, you live forever. If your with it and you don't, you burn. Which means that whether you're in a BGLO has no affect on your afterlife. You must decide if you can deal with the negative temptations that come with your covenant ("every time I seek to do good, evil oppresses me on every side" type temptations), then be you. As I will when I pledge soon.

P.S. It's wrong to judge a particular thing based on individuals. One apple doesn't spoil a whole bunch. Well, not in this case. That's just my opinion. If one judged your whole church by the worst of your congregation, your church would look just as bad as GLOs.

Okay. That's my 2 cents. (looks more like 1.00) I'm done now.

Instant Messenger: pimpinole,4

Greek wannabe, sister in Christ, here is my biblical response to some of the things that you said:

The bible does not tell us to stay away from sinners. It's their WAYS we should avoid. It is not wrong to fellowship with them and promise to help them when they ask you for it or you feel they need it.

1 Corinthians 6:14-18 (read, study, and pray on this)
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawnessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15And what accord has Christ with Belial? OR WHAT PART HAS A BELIEVER WITH AN UNBELIEVER? 16 AND WHAT AGREEMENT HAS THE TEMPLE OF GOD WITH IDOLS? For you are the temple of the living God.... 17 Therefore, "COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE SEPARATE.....18...."

Now reread your post and then reread these scriptures.

Another one of your statements:
I don't plan on growing further from God because even though the promise I will make to my chosen BGLO will become a big part of my college and life experience, it will never be bigger than my covenant with God. I know there is life after my BGLO days.

A lot of people who go into a BGLO as a Christian, end up becoming a mason also and then begin to have doubts about certain things in the Bible. Some claim to have found God through their orgs, but yet they compromise what's in their rituals and what's in the Bible- so what exactly were they taught pertaining to Chrisitanity? Also, you don't have to plan to get further from God, but 1 Corinthians 15:33 says, "DO NOT BE DECEIVED: "Evil company CORRUPTS good habits."

Another one of your statements:
As I said, I'm not in a GLO, so ya'll can correct me if I"m wrong, but to my understanding: It seems to me that the misconception of these organizations are that everyone who participates in them are making a covenant TO the sinners. You are not directly in a covenant to be a heathen like your line sisters/brothers who are unsaved. They're your sisters and brothers because they pledged at the same time that you did that they wanted to be a part of something that has been created to help the community and each other in areas in which they are lacking. Just like when other people took that walk with me to the altar (yes I'm saved before anyone asks HA HA ), doesn't mean that I inherit all their shortfalls because we aren't coming to each other. We're coming at the same time to do something for our own individual good. But as a member of the family, we agree to help each other out where we can. I feel it's the same way when you go Greek. You are not pledging TO each other. You're pledging WITH each other to the idea of working for the greater good of yourself, each other, the community, the world.

P.S. It's wrong to judge a particular thing based on individuals. One apple doesn't spoil a whole bunch. Well, not in this case. That's just my opinion. If one judged your whole church by the worst of your congregation, your church would look just as bad as GLOs.

I saved the best for last. Now, where do I start? You mention all the good that BGLOs do for the community and what not--okay, fine, but the Bible says "only what you do for Christ will last" Many orgs say "in the name of ....sorority/fraternity" so I'll tell you that if you don't do it for the glory of God it means nothing. Now, you might say, "well, I'll be doing it for God's glory" but why do you need to get into a covenant with an org that speaks highly of a false god and looks to that false god for direction, sacrifices the false god, has a day set apart to honor the false god, etc. just to minister to God's people. (All of the BGLOs have a false god that serves a high purpose within their orgs and it's not just symbolism).

Also you mentioned that you'll be making a covenant with the org and not the members, but sweetie, the members make the org, the members are the org, without the members there is no org. Now, some might say you're not making a cov with the org but rather the goals, ideals, and mission of the org--that very same org bases their goals, ideals, and mission upon the help of a false god. Saying that the cov is with the org and not the members doesn't make it any better because it is the org that contains the ungodly ritual,your cov will be with the org that has an ungodly ritual.

PS, My best advice would be: whether they all, a few, or only one member of that org does or does not do great things in the community, they still have an ungodly ritual. Whether they all, a few, or only one member of that org hazes or not, they still have an ungodly ritual. This alone should sit uneasy in the spirit of a Christian. You don't need an organizational affiliation to do good things in your community, you've been commissioned by God to do great things in the world. No license, certificate, or ordination needed. But the fact that you have your mind set already is going to make it a little difficult to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying, He'll speak, but will you hear? We need to set aside our own desires and self-will to be able to HEAR, ACCEPT, AND OBEY, what GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT is saying, ask Him to help you to do such.

Part of dying to our flesh daily is to die to our own self-wills and to live in the will of God.

May God bless you in all of your endeavors,
but let God be glorified

Greetings Me.
Now continue on that first passage to chapter 7 verse 1... Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

How does community service and fellowship with those who are lost fit into that part. Let us take scriptures in their whole context.

I studied that, but I've also read

Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also with Jesus and his dicsiples. For there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the Pharisees saw him... they said... "How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?17 "When JESUS heard it, he saith unto them, "They that are whole hath no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentence.

I understand what you are saying, but there is still the question of how many more lives one can touch when they are among sinners. U say we should not fellowship with sinners. Why, then, are there missionaries? True missionaries who travel the world and live amongst communities in the Amazon and befriend them and learn their language and translate the Bible to it and be an example unto them? As Lauryn Hill said in her unplugged CD "What a paradox/having God trapped in a box/..... /Focused on the shadow/with our backs turned to the light/too intelligent to see that we are in the way/" That is my belief. Not directed at you, but just to say that it seems easier to reach something 10 inches away than something 10 feet away.


Proverbs 3:21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion.22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace unto thy neck. 23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble. 24 when thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

In other words, in addition to the scriptures, use common sense. Do not let common sense out of your decision making, and you won't stumble or or be weary as you walk your Christian journey. My common sense says that I am strong enough to be able to not only stand fast in my Christian beliefs while in a BGLO, but I am also strong enough that I can be a light for those who need it. My common sense knows it's wrong to worship an idol God. I won't. My common sense knows it's wrong to offer sacrifices to anyone other than my Jehovah. I won't. If I am obligated to any of those things, I will turn from the organization and never look back. If I am not, I will continue because it's what I want to do. And when I lie down at night, like in verse 24, I will still have sweet dreams. If it's not against the word of God, then why should I worry?

2 Corinthians 2:14 Now Thanks be to God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in EVERY PLACE. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, AND in them that perish.

We as Christians can meet with those of the world. As long as we don't absorb the stench of their sins. Like the verse says... to God we are the sweet smell of Christ, and we spread that fragrance where ever we shall go.

Yours in Christ,
a greek wannabe

Instant Messenger: pimpinole,4

greek wannabe,

I see that you recognize that not only did Christ tell us to come out from among them and be separate, but we also see that He walked and talked with sinners---for ministerial purposes, He never allowed Himself to be pulled in by outward enticement--how He saw them living. We can't minister to people if stay away from them entirely, but God is not saying go into what He wants them to come out of. There is no excuse for a Christian to come to the knowledge of ungodliness and yet compromise so that they may do what they want to do. God said it is better for you not to know and don't do than to know and don't do. Now, since you know right, in this case (I guess), will you do right? I do not have the right to judge or condemn, but I have been commissioned to witness and that's what I will do b/c I am my brothers and sisters keeper. Thank you for atleast being humble enough to hear what other Christians have to say, from those who have been there and those who wanted to be there. Basically, just because God wants us to minister to sinners, that does not mean to get into their lifestyle---how can the blind lead the blind---you have to come out before the others who are in will hear you when you tell them that God wants them to come out also (this goes for any ungodly lifestyle).

God bless you 100 fold,
Let God be glorified

Very true. The blind cannot lead the blind. And I know that God's call for us to do right does not mean to adopt their evil ways. And I won't do so. I haven't been to a club my first year in college, and I don't plan on doing so just because I wear letters. That's not what 'enticed' me to pledge. I'm above that behavior. I have 'come out'. I can witness. I will minister. I have yet to become knowledgeable of ungodliness. I only have unsubstantiated accusations. As I said before, I know where I'm going. I'm still on the road to perfection in Christ. However, if I come up against a solid reason to derail my BGLO train, I'll be the first one back.

And thanks to you too, Me, for listening. Even if we still don't agree. And I leave this forum with a few verses for reading...

2 Timothy 2:14-16, 22-26 (NIV)***for a clearer understanding***

14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who are involved in it will become more and more ungodly.
***
22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 Don't have anything to do with foolisk and stupid arugments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Shalom. Amen.
Yours in Christ,
a greek wannabe.

Instant Messenger: pimpinole,4

Me,

I think that you got it all twisted. You said something like being in an organization with others and calling him or her your brother or sister than he or she should be saved in order to call them bro or sis. Well, I have a question for you. Are your biological brother or sister saved? They maybe but do he or she live up to it? Do you live up to the standards of being saved? Most people who claim to be saved, arent. You see all kinds of hyorites in the church every Sunday praising to the Lord, so are they still considered to be saved? I want you to think about it before you answer me.

Minister, when you wrote those questions you should have left out #5 because who asks that kind of question. For one you should love a person regardless if he or she is saved or not. Second, a person can easily say that he or she is saved and may not be saved. So I think that this question should be void because I totally believed that it doesnt matter if a person is saved before he or she joins an organization.

Re: What to ask at an interest meeting?

Me,

I think that you got it all twisted. You said something like being in an organization with others and calling him or her your brother or sister than he or she should be saved in order to call them bro or sis. Well, I have a question for you. Are your biological brother or sister saved? They maybe but do he or she live up to it? Do you live up to the standards of being saved? Most people who claim to be saved, arent. You see all kinds of hypocrites in the church every Sunday praising to the Lord, so are they still considered to be saved? I want you to think about it before you answer me.

Minister, when you wrote those questions you should have left out #5 because who asks that kind of question. For one you should love a person regardless if he or she is saved or not. Second, a person can easily say that he or she is saved and may not be saved. So I think that this question should be void because I totally believed that it doesnt matter if a person is saved before he or she joins an organization.

Me,

I think that you got it all twisted. You said something like being in an organization with others and calling him or her your brother or sister than he or she should be saved in order to call them bro or sis. Well, I have a question for you. Are your biological brother or sister saved? They maybe but do he or she live up to it? Do you live up to the standards of being saved? Most people who claim to be saved, arent. You see all kinds of hyorites in the church every Sunday praising to the Lord, so are they still considered to be saved? I want you to think about it before you answer me.

Calling a bro./sis. who is your biological bro./sis. is just that--biological. When we speak of this in the church we're talking in body of Christ---meaning b/c they are saved and a Christian they have joined the family of God making themselves your bro./sis.
All were created by God, but John 1:12 means just what it says, to some He gave the right to become children of God.....who were born of God, not of flesh, will of man, or of blood---which we all were, so it's talking about a spiritual rebirth (starting your life over again spiritually--being born again).

You said it, they may be saved, but are they living it? saved--confessed & believe Christian (much more in-depth definition--basically taking the next step and living it)so this: You see all kinds of hyorites in the church every Sunday praising to the Lord, so are they still considered to be saved? means nothing.

God bless you,
Let God be glorified

About the Bro's abd sis's thing! Read what Jesus says in Matthew 12:50- he is not denying that He has biological siblings, but that TRUE brotherhood and sisterhood can only be realized through the Christian bond. As for biological, did you choose them or was it involuntary? You CHOSE to make SINNERS your brothers and sisters. JESUS NEVER DID THIS, Hebrews 7:26.

As for II Corinthians 6:14-18, I want anyone who disagrees that this applies to Christians in GLO's to breakdown the scripture for me. IN CONTEXT!!!!!!! I don't want jobs, siblings, etc. I want a scriptural breakdown. Nothing else will do. What is Paul discussing and what point is he trying to make? For all who are in agreement that it is an UNEQUAL yoke, PLEASE DO NOT REPLY until I have FIRST. I am asking you to do this, because this scripture is a serious blow to the Christian Greek who makes the claim of remaining to be a witness.

Upon observing this site and all that it entails, I am starting to doubt if you are even a pastor/man of god Mr Hatchett. You speak very nastily and are not kind at all to others...you were in a GLO so who are you to judge...think about your purpose as to why you joined in the first place and stop acting like you are holier than thou...just because you are a pastor doesnt mean you are better than anyone in the world!!! YOU ARE A POOR EXAMPLE OF A PASTOR!!! we are accomplished individuals and professionals whose purpose is to service our communities.....instead of diverting ALL of your energy towards younger adults like us, why dont you concentrate on your "church"..with a leader like you in their possession, they are sadly mislead by your teachings....lets empower each other instead of bashing organizations that were created for unity and community service... you cant hide from us because Greeks are everywhere:in your church , in the business world,EVERYWHERE!!!!


God Bless you

I have no problem with people deciding to do what they feel God is leading them to do, but what I do have a problem with is without looking deeper into things people making haste decisions about things they know nothing about. I mean the bible says study to show thyself approved, yet Minister Hatchett can get on here and say something and some defend it like its gold. Even if I told you something pertaining to scripture I expect you to read and study the word for yourself. I'm a minister of the gospel just like he is but yet I dont claim to know everything. The bible says we all only know in parts. The only way to salvation is through the believing that Jesus is the Son of God and that He gave His life for us. John 3:16. Thats the bottom line. Surely Holy living is involved in this. Anything that goes beyond this is doctorine and mans interpretation. Listen people, if a man Minister or Not, tells you something and all you do is believe it without studying for yourself, you're gonna always be mans puppet believing whatever sounds right. If disassociated yourself with an organization to follow what God has for you to do in His Kingdom, let it be for that reason and not because a person came to you with his half truth's pursuading you to do so. If you run a person who is pro org they're not gonna tell you anything bad about orgs because its their job to promote organizations. If you wanna across someone who is against orgs (like Hatchett) then they're not gonna tell you anything good about orgs cause its their job to demote org. Be led by God,His Word and His convictions, not man and his opinions. If man didnt talk you into it, dont let man talk you out of it. The bible says a doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways. If people can pursuade you to and fro to believe certain things you're living through their minds and not your own and surely not God's. P.S. let every man be pursuaded in his own mind.

I tell people the whole truth AABusiness. They do here the good.