I believe what Paul was saying is: there is no offense in eating MEAT itself. During the old testament times, people used to sacrifice animals to idols. They also believed that sacrificing animals would cleanse their sins, of course we know better.

Therefore, some old testament Christians refused to eat any kind of meat because they wanted to separate themselves from idolatry completely. Paul was referring to the practice of eating meat versus a vegetarian diet. He was explaining that it is okay to eat meat unless it offends your brother (fellow believer). Some believers did not understand that eating meat in and of itself was not idolatry. However, the sacrifice, prayer, and consecration of the food is idolatry. In no way was Paul encouraging people to participate in idol worship neither was he diminishing it.

Some people are without excuse because they know better, while others need a teacher. Once you become ENLIGHTENED to the truth, it is your GOD ORDAINED responsibility to WARN OTHERS...

Eating food during a initiation process is a form of idolatry. The food itself is not the problem, in most cases. It is the symbolism, the ritual, the prayer, the meditation, the heart intent, and the resemblance of communion unto a false god, that's the issue.

For the sake of argument---if Paul were saying, it's okay to participate in idolatry, then this would be contrary to the scriptures. Paul is not God. He never has been nor will he ever be. We are without excuse.

God said, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
There is no way around it. WE MUST DRAW THE LINE. SIN IS STILL A REPROACH. BUT HOLINESS IS RIGHT!

Blessings

an initiation process

God said, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."...

No Unity, Jesus was the first to deal with idolatry. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God only and Him only shalt thou serve. Christians are not to eat food that they KNOW is offered to idols, because they are not sacrifices to idols but to devils. Paul says we are not to take part in that.

And if the person who believes that UNITY's ritual does not say that needs to call me. 919/278-8911
You are a liar or ignorant Unity.

I want to take a moment and ADMIT that I reviewed the RITUAL from Alpha and from the OPPOSITIONs standpoint... I will offer this...to the outsider not versed in Alpha...your arguments CAN be valid...But once you go through them YOURSELF as an act...retaught as a member and teaching to others you begin to better (not fully) understand...I say that because to me the Ritual is a living document that requires study by MY FELLOW MEMBERS...I believe that unless someone is a Christian the Bible is not as clear to you...Non-Christians don't understand Jesus as lord and savior just by reading the text...So again from the outside I think that you are only gaining SOME of the knowledge that OUR ritual offers to some members...UNLESS you can WALK through yourself or proctor the ritual after going through the pledge process you are going to miss the subtle things that make it unique....From a communications standpoint...outsiders always struggle to understand intent when they were not a part of the drafting group or the primary interpreters.

This is why I talk to former members and even current members about it. Remember that I have been through rituals myself.

Concerning you comment on pledging. Who's pledging?

I don't forget that you have been through rituals yourself...I think that former and current members who share that information to begin with have forgotten some of the ritual...I myself as a Catholic do not buy into "I talk to current Catholics and former Catholics" because those people tend to either not have a full grasp of the faith (in this GLOs or had concern in an area that probably stopped their growth and understanding)...I have much to learn as a current member and if I become disgruntled in my faith or in Alpha than I can promise you my learning and understanding will be curbed greatly.

I don't believe a person has to be a part of something to know that it is darkness. You can sometimes see better from the outside than the inside. Once someting has indoctrinated you, sometimes you can't see clear. You need someone who isn't in the situation to help you see the situation

Catholicism is a whole other story. Though GLO's and it are related.

Donna,
During the "old testament" times eating meat was not associated with idol worship. If that was the case then G-d would have not permitted Noah and the israelites to eat meat. There was meat that was dedicated to idols, wine dedicated to idols, and vegetables dedicated to idols. The prohibition during "old testament" times was against eating or drinking anything that was dedicated to idols.

The passage I referenced regarding paul was not if it is okay to eat things dedicated to idols, but rather how did paul see things that were dedicated to idols. Paul clearly has the mentality that there is no power in those things. No he is not telling indiviuals it is okay to worship idols, but the context of the passage is in reference to eating meat DEDICATED to idols, not simply eating meat.

It is obvious that paul is not G-d nor j*s*s, but many follow his ruling on things that are more confortable or make more since to do. But when it goes against a certain comfort level or a certain way of thinking, many say that paul is not G-d and what G-d says is worth more than what paul says. For instance peter (who walked with j*s*s) believed in circumcision, paul (who only encountered j*s*s in a vision) did not. After a vote the decision was ruled against circumcision. Many adhere to that eventhough paul nor those who voted were G-d.

In addition, it was not believed in the "old testament" that a person could be cleansed from sins strictly by animal sacrifice. A careful read of the "old testament" will show that the only time a person could be forgivin/cleansed of sins was by repenting. There are a list of sacrifices that were made after a person repented. There were animal and meal/dough sacrifices made for non-intentional sins. However the "old testament" does not mention any sacrifice that is to be made for intentional sins. The only thing it says that is to be done for intentional and non-intentional sins universally is to repent and return to G-d. It is ironic that repentence and turning to G-d is the same message that j*s*s taught.

Instant Messenger: ,3

It has always been the theme throughout the Bible. Repenting and believing, forgiveness and faith, but now can only be achieved through abd because of Jesus.

Now as a Mason I can say this, Hatchett you and I both know that in a Greek or Masonic ritual there are several things mentioned that are not literal. Now talkin to a man who claims he is an x-bruh, you should know better than most that 85% of these rituals contain stuff that is in no way literal. Now VPierce (hope im spelling your name right) made a super valid point. If a non-member was to read some of these rituals yes they would agree with you because they're looking at it face value, but a person who has been properly initiated knows that these things do not mean what they come off as on paper. Now why is that Hatchett? Because the authors and publishers of this material knew that it was only a matter of time before a snooper would get their hands on this material and try to use it for other purposes other than its original purpose. Why do you think people still have to be initiated before obtaining a ritual? So that they can know what their orgs really stand for other than the jimmy crack crock written in the books. These people knew folks would one day get a hold of this stuff. Now with knowing that do you honestly believe they would print 100% literal material in a ritual that can be easily obtained by any joe blow off the street? Now with the exception of those who were a part of these orgs and denounced, the majority of your followers are used to be aspirants who couldnt get they're hands on any sacred material other than through you. You hand them material and then tell them what you want them to believe it means because you know a real member is not gonna pasify them and tell them what they REALLY wanna know thus making your job a lot easier. Before I went to college I used to be a garbage man. On my garbage route one day I found an Alpha ritual. Now I could have easily ruffled through it. But as a non member of Alpha Phi Alpha you know what I did? Properly discarded it. Why? #1 because i'm not an Alpha and their business is not my business. #2 because as a non member even if I had chose to read it, the fact that i'm a non member means I wouldnt have fully understood it anyway.

You are wrong about what people believe. I have experienced all too much the brainwash affect of these rituals. Why do you think there are over 300 practicing religions in the state of NC alone? Because people will believe the most outlandish crap you feed them. It's not about what's in a person's mind, but what is affecting them spiritually. Do you think Satan is going to lure someone by saying here I am?

your argument that there are too many religions is true there are TONS but unless you are a minister of one of the orignial Church of Christ your ministry is yet another variation...HOW MANY DENOMINATIONS OF CHRISTIANITY ARE THERE?

This ministry comes from the basis of the HOLY BIBLE

(not another religion or denomination, but the real and living Word of God inspired by His Holy Spirit and taught in the religion of Christianity--now some denominations don't teach certain things; like the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it is in the Bible and this ministry is based on the Bible)

God bless

My new question is that with all the denomiations do you feel like you are on the same page though you see things sightly differently?

I'd like to just say yes, but I'd have to just say "pretty much" b/c there are very small differences, but I have found that with all the running around, jumping up and down, and doing flips (no offense-I was a member at this kind of church b4 and in this denomination) they do, Baptist don't even teach the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit (some of them) and that's the one thing not stressed in ALL Christian churches regardless of denomination (although some Baptist denominations do teach this) I could really go on and on about this one, but that still doesn't change what the Word says and the fact that the rituals conflict with the Word regardless of whether or not churches are teaching the complete Word. You have the Bible for yourself and you STUDY b/c reading can be deceiving and you first ask the Holy Spirit to teach you therefore, whether man teaches you or not you still have the opportunity to know the truth for yourself. Just b/c man won't or doesn't know to teach certain things doesn't mean that those things aren't there, real, and true.

God bless

Now with that being said, I know many Pentocostal and Apostolics that say this being baptized in the name of Jesus. Now my Bible in Matthew Ch 28 vs. 19 (in red might I add), Jesus said Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Now whos to say whos wrong? Now as most who try to prove their points im sure someone is gonna come with a scripture to prove their point as well. And thats my whole point. This site is an example of what I mean when I say people's revelation and interpretation of scriptures is not gonna always link hand in hand. The only thing that is etched in stone that Christians can all agree on is that Jesus lived, died, and was raised from the dead to save man from the bondages of sin. Everything other than that is DOCTORINE that was tampered with by man. Now some say we defend our orgs but some defend their doctorine just the same. Almost none of the doctorine we believe can be 100% proved because if it could the debates and arguments over whats right and whats not right would have ended 1,000's of years ago. My denomination (baptist) teaches Father, Son and Holy Ghost and others teach In the name of Jesus, both in which are written in the Bible. Now even with the whole greek issue most people that I know that oppose greek life/Masonry are Apostolic or Pentocostal and those that agree with it are Usually Baptist or CME. Not in all cases but in most cases thats what I have encountered. Its just like the whole speaking in tongues issue. Some churches teach the only evidence of the Holy Spirit is thru speaking in tongues. But I was just shown in the bible by another Bishop friend of mine (who is also an Omega) that that is not in the least bit true. I said that to say this people go with what they have been taught and find to be true in their hearts. In the end doctorine and denominations will be done away with and its all about JESUS!

Now with that being said, I know many Pentocostal and Apostolics that say this being baptized in the name of Jesus. Now my Bible in Matthew Ch 28 vs. 19 (in red might I add), Jesus said Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

You also said that in the end all doctrines will be done away with and it will be all about Jesus.

Now my point is: (I came from Baptist, CME, Assemblies of God/ Pentecostal- currently Pentecostal--same religion, different denominations (they all have their man made rituals but I follow the Word) The first quote that I posted from you is above. You proved my point with the second quote that I posted from you. The point in is that we baptize in teh name of the God of Abraham, Jacob , and Isaac. some say in thename of Jesus and some say in the name of the Father , Son, and Holy Ghost--it's all about God (whether Father, Son, or Holy Ghost)--and these three are one (1John 5:7). The thing is that it's only possible and it's power is only possible (the symbolism of the power) is only possible in the name of the real God. Yes the REAL God and not the god of buddhism or Muslim (or their faith rather b/c I believe that it's the same god that they believe in but the issue is more about Jesus).

God bless

ME said:

Now my point is: (I came from Baptist, CME, Assemblies of God/ Pentecostal- currently Pentecostal--same religion,


Now you see what im saying, most of the people I meet that oppose BGLO's/Masonry are Apostolic or Pentecostal. And you are Pentecostal correct. Now those that I know that have denounced their organizations are those who used to be baptist/cme etc. and when they changed denominations and became Apostolic or Pentecostol they all of a sudden had a problem with greek organizations. Now maybe i'm wrong but this leads me to believe that certain things are only being stressed in certain denominations. Cause in the baptist and cme realm glo members and masons are more dominant in these denominations than anything. Most of the famous greek preachers that I know are all baptist. So my question is, is greek life being severely opposed in certain denominations only? My mom is a CME minister and all her pastor friends are AKA's and i'm a baptist minister and almost all our deacons are Omega's and Masons. And most of our ministers are Masons, Omega's or Both. We have a few Kappas as well. And not to mention the Deltas are widespread in our church.

This is not a Denominational debate. I suggest that people of whatever denominations you belong to take a step back and look at the fundamental principles of Christianity. The Birth, Ministry, Death, Burial, Resurrection and Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Apostles. Poeple need to understand dispensations, historical evidence, writings of the early church fathers, etc. So the end of this debate is now.

Please do not continue it elsewhere.