General Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Elvis sandwich grammar

An original essay contained the following two sentences.

The peanut butter and jelly sandwich is an iconic American food. Peanut butter, banana, and bacon is famous as "the Elvis."

A proofreader changed the second sentence.

The peanut butter, banana, and bacon sandwich is famously known as the "the Elvis sandwich."

Although "famously known as" is frequently used in English, after consideration, it seems to be wrong or at least stylistically poor.

The adverb "famously" adds the meaning "in a way or to an extent that is well-known."

Churchill famously declared that Britons would never surrender. [I.e., Churchill's declaration was made in a way that is well-known...]

It can also be used as a sentential adverb, I think.

Famously, Churchill declared that Britons would never surrender. [I.e., it is well-known that Churchill declared...]

But I don't think the verb "to know" stands up to this sort of analysis. It appears to create a redundancy.

Norma Jeane is famously known as a glamorous movie star. [I.e., she is known in a way that is well-known...]
Famously, Norma Jeane is known as a glamorous movie star. [I.e., it is well-known that she is known...]

I think these should be fixed either by removing one part of the redundancy...

Norma Jeane is widely known as a glamorous move star. [I.e., she is known by many people...]

...or by removing the other part.

Famously, Norma Jeane was a glamorous movie star. [I.e., it is well-known that she was...]

On the other hand, "as" as a preposition refers to role, capacity or function.

Norma Jeane is famous as a glamorous movie star. [I.e., she is well-known in the role of glamorous movie star... but not well-known in the role of gourmet chef.]

So, the following sentence is clearly correct.

The peanut butter, banana, and bacon sandwich is famous as Elvis' favorite sandwich. [I.e., it is well-known in the role of Elvis' favorite... but not well-known in the role of being a diet food.]

The definition of "as" does not include the meaning "by the name of." However, a name can, and often does, denote a role or capacity. The BIG QUESTION, then, is whether the following sentence can be correct.

Norma Jeane is famous as Marilyn Monroe. [I.e., she is well-known in the role of Marilyn Monroe, a glamorous movie star... but not well-known in the role of Norma Jeane, the Bolender's foster child.]

I can't find reliable examples of the "X is famous as Y" construction. In billions of webpages, Google returns only three hits on "was famous as Marilyn Monroe" and zero hits on "is famous as Marilyn Monroe." I think it must be wrong.

Thanks so much for your time.

Sincerely,
Chris

Post Script:

Incidentally, the following sentences appear to be correct as well, but only because "known as" can be an idiom meaning "commonly named."

Famously, Norma Jeane is known as Marilyn Monroe. [I.e., it is well-known that she is commonly named...]
Norma Jeane is, famously, known as Marilyn Monroe. [Here, famously is still a sentential adverb, not modifying "known as."]
and
Peanut butter, banana, and bacon is, famously, known as "the Elvis sandwich."

I think it is also an open question whether the following sentence, using the idiom "known as," is correct.

Norma Jeane is famously known as Marilyn Monroe. [I.e., she is commonly named MM in a way that is well-known.]

The meaning of the above sentence seems to collapse into a sentential usage of "famously." Or, it seems to mean that the conditions surrounding Norma Jeane's acquisition of a commonly used name are well-known, which seems very odd. However, saying that the conditions surrounding the PBb&b's acquisition of a commonly used name are well-known does not seem so odd, so maybe the following sentence is correct... ? I don't know.

Peanut butter, banana, and bacon is famously known as "the Elvis sandwich." [I.e., it is commonly named "tEs" in a way that is well-known.]

If I don't analyze it, the sentence seems okay, but if I think "commonly named"="widely named" and "well-known"="widely known," it seems redundant again.