Remember Vietnam, when the south Vietnamese did the same thing.
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More Than 1,000 in Iraq's Forces Quit Basra Fight
By Stephen Farrell and James Glanz
The New York Times

Friday 04 April 2008

Baghdad - More than 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and policemen either refused to fight or simply abandoned their posts during the inconclusive assault against Shiite militias in Basra last week, a senior Iraqi government official said Thursday. Iraqi military officials said the group included dozens of officers, including at least two senior field commanders in the battle.

The desertions in the heat of a major battle cast fresh doubt on the effectiveness of the American-trained Iraqi security forces. The White House has conditioned further withdrawals of American troops on the readiness of the Iraqi military and police.

The crisis created by the desertions and other problems with the Basra operation was serious enough that Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki hastily began funneling some 10,000 recruits from local Shiite tribes into his armed forces. That move has already generated anger among Sunni tribesmen whom Mr. Maliki has been much less eager to recruit despite their cooperation with the government in its fight against Sunni insurgents and criminal gangs.

A British military official said that Mr. Maliki had brought 6,600 reinforcements to Basra to join the 30,000 security personnel already stationed there, and a senior American military official said that he understood that 1,000 to 1,500 Iraqi forces had deserted or underperformed. That would represent a little over 4 percent of the total.

A new National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq cites significant security improvements but concludes that security remains fragile, several American government officials said.

Even as officials described problems with the planning and performance of the Iraqi forces during the Basra operation, signs emerged Wednesday that tensions with Moktada al-Sadr, the radical cleric who leads the Mahdi Army militia, could flare up again. Mr. Sadr, who asked his followers to stop fighting on Sunday, called Thursday for a million Iraqis to march to the Shiite holy city of Najaf next week to protest what he called the American occupation. He also issued a veiled threat against Mr. Maliki's forces, whom he accused of violating the terms of an agreement with the Iraqi government to stand down.

Estimates by Iraqi military officials of the number of officers who refused to fight during the Basra operation varied from several dozen to more than 100. But three officials said that among those who had been relieved of duty for refusing to fight were Col. Rahim Jabbar and Lt. Col. Shakir Khalaf, the commander and deputy commander of an entire brigade affiliated with the Interior Ministry.

A senior military official in Basra asserted that some members of Colonel Khalaf's unit fought even though he did not. Asked why he believed Colonel Khalaf did not fight, the official said that the colonel did not believe the Iraqi security forces would be able to protect him against threats to his life that he had received for his involvement in the assault.

"If he fights today, he might be killed later," the official said.

The senior American military official said the number of officers was "less than a couple dozen at most," but conceded that the figure could rise as the performance of senior officers was assessed.

But most of the deserters were not officers. The American military official said, "From what we understand, the bulk of these were from fairly fresh troops who had only just gotten out of basic training and were probably pushed into the fight too soon."

"There were obviously others who elected to not fight their fellow Shia," the official said, but added that the coalition did not see the failures as a "major issue," especially if the Iraqi government dealt firmly with them.

Mr. Maliki, who personally directed the Basra operation, which both American and Iraqi officials have criticized as poorly planned and executed, acknowledged the desertions without giving a specific number in public statements on Thursday.

"Everyone who was not on the side of the security forces will go into the military courts," Mr. Maliki said in a news briefing in the Green Zone. "Joining the army or police is not a trip or a picnic, there is something that they have to pay back to commit to the interests of the state and not the party or the sect."

"They swore on the Koran that they would not support their sect or their party, but they were lying," he said.

On Sunday, Mr. Sadr gave the prime minister a somewhat face-saving way out of the Basra fight by ordering the Mahdi fighters to lay down their weapons after days in which government forces had made no headway.

Mr. Sadr simultaneously made a series of demands, which senior Iraqi politicians involved in the talks said they believed that Mr. Maliki had agreed to in advance. But the prime minister has since denied any involvement in the talks, and government raids on Mahdi Army units - something Mr. Sadr had said must stop - have if anything become more frequent in Basra and Baghdad.

Accordingly, Mr. Sadr's latest statement began by quoting a section of the Koran promising doom to those who make promises and then break them. He then complained bitterly that his followers were being unjustly suppressed and arrested, and warned that nothing would force them to completely withdraw. But he did not explicitly call for new fighting.

American support for Iraqi government forces has also continued, and on Thursday the American military said it had carried out two airstrikes on Wednesday in Basra, one "to destroy an enemy structure housing a sniper engaging Iraqi security forces in Basra" and another to destroy a machine gun nest.

The Iraqi police said one of the strikes leveled a two-story house in Basra's Kibla neighborhood, killing three people and wounding three, all in the same family. The police made no mention of hostile activity.

Ryan C. Crocker, the United States ambassador to Iraq, said Mr. Maliki took the lead in talks with Shiite tribes and said that the turnout of thousands of security applicants in Basra was testament to his success.

"It is very clear that they have moved over toward the prime minister in a very significant way," Mr. Crocker said during a briefing in the United States Embassy in Baghdad.

"The tribal element he managed himself, as far as I can see," he said. "You may recall he had a series of meetings with different tribal leaders, three or four of them, maybe more. That was something he focused on almost from the beginning, and pressed it hard straight through and has seen it pay off. Did he have counsel to do it, I don't know. But he is the one who did it."

Two southern tribal sheiks said that by providing recruits for the security forces, they were expressing support for the government. But the sheiks made clear that the promise of good-paying jobs for the largely unemployed young men in their tribes had also been a powerful inducement.

Sheik Kamal al-Helfi, head of the Basra branch of the Halaf tribe, said by phone that he was still bargaining to increase his tribe's allotment of 25 jobs in the security forces. "Many people faced a bad situation since the time of Saddam, and they have no jobs," he said.

Another southern tribal leader, Sheik Adel al-Subihawi, said larger and more powerful tribes had received quotas as high as 300 jobs.

Mr. Maliki also announced $100 million in economic assistance to Basra, to be administered by the central government in partnership with the provincial government, and said the government would create 25,000 jobs in the city over the coming year.

Citing that promise of assistance and the tribal discussions, Mr. Crocker said, "Were there deals? Like everything else, that is not an engagement you win purely by military means. The prime minister is employing the economic dimension of power right now, and good on him, I think. Money is in many respects his most important weapon and he is using it."

Mr. Maliki said that the tribal recruits would be carefully vetted. But that was not enough to satisfy some Sunnis farther north who have been waiting for months to see comparable numbers of their tribesmen accepted into the government security forces. Tens of thousands of these Sunnis, including many former insurgents, are working alongside Iraqi and American troops in a so-called tribal awakening movement - clearly a model for the tribal outreach in Basra.

"Recruiting large number of young people in Basra to fight the JAM proves once again that the government of Nuri al-Maliki is a sectarian government, a double-standard one that favors one sect at the expense of other sects," said Abu Othman, a senior member of Fadhil Awakening Council, referring to the Mahdi Army by its Arabic acronym.

Abu Othman said four months ago he had presented 100 Sunni names for enrollment in the Iraqi police and had received no reply.

"The Maliki government wants security forces that are controlled, manipulated and moved by them," he said.

Geez Vietnamization. Lets call it Iraqiization.

I feel I should add something on behalf of the ARVN. They suffered 184,000 - 250,000 KIA. They must have been fighting someone. I think our impression that they didn't fight is because our operations tended to be seperate from theirs. Also, much of what we heard from our own officers gave us the impression that we "had to do it" because the ARVN "couldn't be counted on."

I dont think that 45 of the iraqis keeping their heads down is very huigh. These were probably gren troops and as far as two officers being relieved that isnt very high either. I think the point is that Al Sadrs troops backed down. He pulled them out of the line of fire . If he was winning he would have gone on to destroy the govt forces. He didnt .

Duane, don't be deliberately silly. Sadr is trying to establish a strong political position, not to declare war on the government. And you can bet he made his point. He can stir up trouble whenever and wherever he wants to, Surge or no surge. And the government troops did not stand him down, the Iraqi government went to Iran and asked them to get him to back off. And if you see that as a positive, then you are wearing the same set of blinders that you have always worn.

I agree with Bill about the ARVN. I spent my second tour working with a battalion of ARVN Rangers and they sure as hell stood and delivered when it came time to fight. I am sure that there were ARVN units that did not perform well, but I think that their reputation for refusing to fight was way overblown.

Duane you must not have served in NAM as an infantrymen who never worked with S.Vietnamese military and know that they were known for well not showing up when it was time to battle. I could tell you 50 stories.

As for the so called Iraq military who backed away during the Basra incedent it is fact..even Gen Petrais mentioned it and did indicte a sum of around 1000 ran and hid

Gen Petrais also stated " I see no light at the end of the tunnel" At least for this he was honest and I commend him.

Sadly those who are called to answer questions in front of congress [ military, politicans etc ] have an obligation to tell the truth.

It is sad that our militry Generals who do not follow the BUsh doctrine are removed from office. I am sure you can list the amount of people removed from their positions for not following or agreeing with Bush.

He is a great General but following orders, not speaking from the heart, cause if he did it would come out totally different. And as far as the yoyo who is the American Ambassador to Irq, well he is just another puppit.

I don't let myself get blinded by say Republican this or Democrate that, my concern is the weakening of our troops, the loss of over 4,000 fine men and women not to include the 30-40,000 wounded, thousands of Iraq dead, displaced etc. You mark my words as soon as Exxon and the rest of the oil companies get their deal with the Iraq oil ministry "we will be gone"

Mike Ivy do you know who is the commander in chief of the united states armed forces? It is the President of the united states. you seem to imply that you know what is really in General Patreous's heart. That he isnt telling the truth. He has spent his entire adult life serving this country. He told the congress his honest opinion. Now if you and the rest of the democrats want to you can completely defund our soldiers leave them without food , pay ammo.
And if you want you can impeach and remove both bush and cheny from office. why hasnt hairy reed san fran nan. That pig Murtha who would hang all american soldiers done that. Why havent they.

Jack B by your statements in your earlier post you seem to have direct access to what is going on with the terrorists and Iran. Is it because the democrats stopped the U S from survelling messages between the terorists and the united states you were able to restablish your ties to iran and alsadr?

Pretty interesting stuff.

In fact Duane's last two posts should be printed out and hung in every Mental Institution in the Country.

A+....Jinx!!!

oops...I mean Jinks!! Sorry...

Jinx if you read what jack b says . How can you not deduce that he seems ( at least by what he says)to have intimate knowledge of what Al sadr is doing.
He makes definitive statemendt whicb can only come from being close to the terrorists. Unless of course he is just trying to impress the rest of you by pretending HE IS close to the leadership of the terrorist anti americans.

Duane

What we have here is Jack, that can read more than one piece of material on a subject then "Process" it mentally and transfer those thoughts to print. Most of us have been doing this since Grammar School.

Only a paranoid and delusional person would read Jacks post and come to the conclusion that he had inside information or was even a friend of the terrorists.

As far as your statement about being impressed, Im seldom Impressed about anything. Although I do think that you are impressed with Jacks post more than you would like to admit, Just because it contains "Conscious Thought".

You seem to comment on his posts on a regular basis. Mostly with Unconscious and desperate comments at that..All very Republican and very Boreing.

SSGMike: Your statement - "Duane you must not have served in NAM as an infantrymen who never worked with S.Vietnamese military and know that they were known for well not showing up when it was time to battle. I could tell you 50 stories."
Actually it was I who took exception to the original statement that the ARVN wouldn't fight. I don't think Duane ever mentioned them.
My statement - "They must have been fighting someone," is based on the statistic that they had 180,000 - 250,000 KIAs. I served in 'Nam as an infantry medic, and had very little contact, good or bad, with the ARVN. Jack said that from his PERSONAL experience with the ARVN, he thought the stories of them not fighting were exagerated.
What is the basis of the 50 stories you could tell? Are they all from personal experience? In a twelve month tour we might have, barely, 50 weeks in the field. Are you saying that you, or your unit, were personally let down, by the ARVN, once a week?

Mad Doc seems I owe an appologie to Duane for mis quoting him. So I appologize