Ist Lt. andrew grayson was aquitted of all charges in his court martial. He was charged by the Marine Corp top brass( in the haditha incident) to satisfy th
at Fat pig John Murtha, so that Murtha could get in closer to the Botox queen san fran nan.
Lt. Grayson was one of eight men charged . Six have so far been aquitted.
I think that took great courage on the part of the officers serving on the court martial board to see that justice prevailed. They have to know that when barackHUSSIENobama becomes President their decades of loyal service to the United states will be thrown away as will they. The democrats will not let them go unpunished for doing the right thing and voting for justice.

Looks like it's about time to kick this "LITTLE - FAT PIGS" ass again! He needs more attention..............

And just who is going to do that . you with the commie name? who ?
Come on out here and give it a try. Duane Zorn 131blaine st. shelby mt. or let me know just who the hell you are and i'll come to you. But if you come better bring 10 or 12 of your fellow democrATs=terrorists crack dealers.

that's why it is called a "court of law" if your innocent you should be declared innocent, but if your guilty you should pay the price.

Mike Ivy you didnt say you were glad that those marines have beeen aquitted. Just a bland generic response . Im happy as can be that fat P O S murtha was proven to be a terrorist wannabe. Plus i hope those marines sue for every penny he has stolen from the american people plus every penny the abscam got him.

excuse me Daune for not stating that I am very happy that the Marines were found not guilty.
Someone who is a true American would not even have to say that,

What Duane has not said is that he would be just as happy to have them acquitted even if they were actually guilty as charged.

No crimes would ever be committed by the U.S. military in Duane's universe - because anything that they did would be okay with him. With one major exception, of course - speaking out against anything that he believed in.

If they were so bold as to believe differently than he and to say it out lound, he would not hestate to proclaim them phony soldiers and to question their patriotism - as he has done before.

no Jacki boy i dont think that any amrican soldier you commits a crime should not be punished. unlike you who honestly believe being a loyal american is the most henios of crimes. these men were railroaded or attempted to be railroaded by that pig Murtha. The onmly evidence they had was from a admitted terrorist one year after the battle that they were in happened. Murtha being the sleasy democrat he is wanted to become something.He pressured the Marine Corps Brass, probably by pointing out that their service to the nation would go down the drain if they dint go along with crucifing these Marines. It almost workrd . Thank God their were honest ( a word jacki you know nothing of) men on that court martial board who were not willing to destroy loyal american regardless of the consequences to themselves when Murtha and al the other slimy dumbocrats gain control.

Duane, you are a liar, plain and simple. And an unmitigated horse's ass besides. To paraphrase a recent commercial, you wouldn't recognize honesty if it sat in your lap and called you mama.

First of all, despite your personal hatred for Murtha, he is not an active member of the military and has never been in the command chain of the men who were chardged with these murders. The Marine Corps charged and tried this Lt. and the other men involved with the murder of 19 men, women, and children.

Second, to say that there was no evidence against these guys is another flat out lie. A number of their fellow Marines and Officers testified against them. Others testified in effect that they killed these people but that they should be convicted of murder because it was in connection with military action against the enemy.

Which of these serving enlisted Marines, Marine Non-coms and Marine Officers are you referring to as terrorists, you jackass?

I say again, you are nothing more than a lying sack of dog dirt.

Drain, Did you sleep wel during the Laws of land warfare, Code of conduct and Geneva convention classes or were you reading grand wizard literture?

Jacqi boy its obvious that you dont like the idea of american fighting men getting a fair trial. That is what happened. The testimon
ey of the ones you refer to was rejected by the court.
Murtha is a very high up in the dumbocrat party he has built a empire of corruption in the congress. If the military needs somethng or wants something . He does the controlling so when he saw a chance to make his empire a little bigger by hanging thses loyal marines he did it. The marines were aquitted of all charges but he did succeed in ruining their lives.
As i said the officers who served on the courtmartial boards can now look forward to the HUSSIEN obama administration destroying them for getting in Murtha's way.
Now i know you dont have any regard for The american armed forces. Didnt you say some lt Colnel chashierd you for insuborination? But im sure you have a very high regard for the iranian armed forces ,for the terrouists of Oama Bin Ladin.

Still trying to call me pet names, eh Duane? Even after all the times that I have told you that I don't swing that way.

As for Grayson, he was not charged with any of the murders - all that he was charged for was covering up the murders in an effort to protect his troops. He was probably guilty of doing exactly that. A board of officers declining to convict him because they understood the pressures he was under is certainly nothing new. Had something like that happened in Viet Nam, I suspect that I would have voted for acquittal, too. That doesn't make it right, just more understandable.

As for your continued lies about lack of evidence, etc., you just continue to show yourself to be totally dishonest.

There is absolutely no question at all that the Marines murdered somewhere between 19-24 Iraqis in Haditha. Hell, at least three of them admitted that they had killed four or five unarmed men who had their hands up at the time that they were shot. Two of those men were later given blanket immunity for testifying about the events.

One Marine, Lance Corporal Humberto Mendoza testified that while searching a house, he found one room containing only women and children. He told this to partol leader Lance Corporal Stephen Tatum and Tatum told him "Well, shoot them." Mendoza said that he again said that the women and children were not presenting any threat. Tatum again told him to shoot the women and children. Instead, Mendoza moved to a position near the front door. He testified that he then heard a door being opened and then an explosion. When he checked the room later, the women and children were dead.

The testimony of the Marines present - not any politician or even any high-ranking officer - makes it very clear that the Marines went on a rampage after one of their buddies was killed by a roadside bomb. They killed 24 people who offered no resistance. A lot of the men directly involved have had charges reduced or have been given immunity for their testimony.

In short, for most of these men, there is no question that they violated U.S. Law. The fact that fellow soldiers choose not to punish some of them for their crimes does not change that fact.

Drano Those Marines ruined thier own lives. They will have to live with themselves and the knowledge that in a period of anziety the committed a barbaric act.. I worew the uniform of the US Army for 45 years. I wore that uniform with pride and dignity I was taught in basic training to never discrace that uniform. I was also taught that the mision of a Solider is to destroy hostile forces. Subdue people and occupy thier land under the rules and laws of land warfare. I was taught that a real Soldier do not commit murder. Drano you sound like a wannabe Soldier. But you never have been or will be.

jacqui you always seem to know so much about things you were not connected with.. Lt Grayson was aquitted of covering up evidence. Therefore it follows that nothing was covered up. Now i know you consider yourself the final arbiter of everything that occurs. Fair trials for these Marines do not fit into your and the rest of the democrats plans. Do they?
This incident was investigated by the u s military when it occcured (nov of 2004 i believe) no wrong doing was found. Time magazine one of the most anti-U S rags in existence brought it back up with the words of a terrorist. And Murtha pounced on it trying to get in good with The BOTOX queen. Anyway the bottom line is those Marines were found not guilty.You cant stand the idea that justice was done. You do have the idea that you democrats can do anything you want to the amwerican people.
You probably miss the daily communication you had with saddam and osama because you used to tell about how you knew just exactly what they were doing going to do.

Yeah, um OJ was acquitted of murder so he must be innocent too, right?

LOL.

Ah Duane, I have such a major advantage over you when it comes to dealing with the world - I am capable of conscious thought. That means that I can deliberately thing about things.

I am also capable of reading and comprehending what I read. So, apparently unlike you, I can read the details of the previous Haditha hearings - particularly the testimony of the men who actually did the shooting - and I can actually understand what they have said.

So, when a man says "I helped murder five men, then fired more bullets into them as they lay on the ground and then later ****** on their corpses." I can understand him to mean that he did exactly what he said that he did.

I also understand that if somebody of higher rank later comes along and says "Well, you were a very bad boy, but since you are on my side I am going to ignore it.", that does not mean that the mad did not do what he confessed to.

You, on the other hand, seem to learn only from what you personally experience - which explains a whole lot about why you are such an ignorant lout.

"I helped murder five men, then fired more bullets into them as they lay on the ground and then later ****** on their corpses."

Jack have you ever heard of self-incrimination?

Not even a Dumbocrat would be that stupid...


"fired more bullets into them as they lay on the ground" that practice has been employed by prudent armies thought out the history of warfare.

That is not murder...I suppose it would occur to a Dumbocrat that a charge of 'mutilating a corpse' would be apropos.

Let's get Mike Nifong on that charge, I'm sure that slimeball could come up with an argument to support the charge of "mutilating a corpse"... and I suppose in today's day and age, they will be able to sit a gov'mint taught jury to deliver a guilty verdict on cue.....

If said quote statement was made post courts-martial the it doesn't count...period and is only hearsay

Well, Russ, you pretty much make my point - just like Duane, you would not charge Americans with crimes, even if you knew for a fact that they were guilty. You guys clearly lack the imagination required to see that when Americans perform terroristic acts they damage our right to ***** about those same acts when they are committed by the enemy. In essence, they give the acts of the bad guys a weird-ass kind of legitimacy.

And you bet that the Staff Sergeant's statement was self-incriminating - people are not required from making self-incriminating statements, but they are not prevented from doing so if they wish. And Wuterich did not truly think that his statement was incriminating - he really thought that he had the right to shoot unarmed men under his rules of engagement.

I don't think that his statement ended up counting for much, anyway - the hearing officer granted one man immunity and reduced charges against another. I think that in the end it was only Staff Sgt Wuterich who ended up facing straight up murder charges.

But my point was not about the finer points of military trial or, more correctly, hearing law. The point was that the military was not acting inappropriately when they brought charges against these men.

The flat truth is that the Marine patrol leader, Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich and another Marine (don't remember his name)admitted, on multiple occasions to lining up five unarmed men in the street and killing them. Mendoza's testimony was about the murder of a bunch of unarmed women and children in a nearby house.

Those three statement's all by themselves provided adequate evidence to justify bring the charges to court. (I don't give a rat's ass about Duane's obsession with Murtha, beyond Duane's lies about there being no evidence of crimes - there was evidence everywhere the investigator's looked.)

Personally, I believe that if the Marines could have convicted the enlisted men without involving higher ranking officers, at least four of the Marines would be doing hard time right now. And some of them should be. Some of the murder victims were very small children - and there has never been any such thing as a three year old enemy.

But convicting the lower ranks would have almost certainly required charges against several officers and the Marine Generals wanted to protect the Bn commander, LT Col. Chessani - by all reports an outstanding officer.

Now Duane will not understand how I know about this stuff - he apparently is still ignorant of modern inventions such as printing presses, legal reviews, etc. So for his benefit I will just admit that I am telepathic and got it all directly from the mind of the trial judge.

Redleg, why are you back at this board!!???
did Bob invite you back? i know he did not!

Julie you know he is here in support of Daune who felt he was being picked on un-neccessarily

Mike ivy i had no idea Russ was gooing to come on here. He did that exercising his free speech rights. Something that ( of course ) no dmeocrat is familiar with.
Now you have the roles reversed . Im the one who does the picking on here, and i do enjoy it
No jacqui "boy". You seem to know so much more about a military court martial. The UCMJ. What is gravelling your scrawny dwarfish ass is that all american soldiers are not railroaded. theses men were charged at the insistence of Porky Murtha. He went public with his claims that this atrocity had happened. may 16 2006 if i remmber correcttly. He then claimed that General Hagee( commanddant of the Marine corps) had briefed him on this. But it was later reported by Murtha himself that he didnt meet with Hagee until may 24 2006.
Now you ( if you are so knowledgeable) should go to either
Washington or Camp Pendelton. Tell the Brass the officers on the court martial board. That you are jacqui "boy" fron the backwoods of florida , that you once had a butter bar.
Tell them you are taking control of the situation and you are finding those men guilty because they are americans.
One little question you recall i told you about the american soldiers captured by terorists a couple of years ago. These americans were mutilated so badly they could only be identified by DNA. You againever said a word against the al queda who did that and no one would have expected you too. But you will hang any americans who defend you and the other people on this board, so you have the right to say anything you like. And may i remind you Russ armstrongs son is one of those men. A very good loyal american soldier.

As far as I'm concerned, Russ is welcome here. I seldom agree with him, but his arguments have more logic than Duane's parrot chatter.
If they ban you Russ - come over to thebandofothers.com It gets boring without dissent.

You just open your mouth and let **** dribble out, don't you, Duane. You don't even bother to let your brain get involved at all. Come to think of it, I rather doubt that you can MAKE your brain get involved.

I feel very comfortable in saying that I almost certainly know more about the UCMJ than you do, Duane. But hell, I feel comfortable saying that I know more than most things than you do.

I don't understand why you good American soldiers to behave the same as the terrorists, Duane, but you clearly do. I have to believe that in your heart you harbor hatred for America - you want our military to become terrorists and I can see no other reason for it.

And one more time, I don't give a flying fig about Murtha. Murtha did not have a single ****ed thing to do with the soldiers being charged. It was the Platoon Sgt's report that caused that, plain and simple.

Open a drain and crap flowsa out.

If someone opens their mouth and incriminates themself, someone else witnesses or hears it, it is not heresay. It can be used against you. It is called witness testimony.

We make such a fuss when American soldiers are beheaded or mutilated after they are killed. So we should make just as a big of a fuss, if not more so, when our soldiers do it.

Once you kill a guy, what is he point of collecting trophies or mutilation other than to prove that you have depraved indifference. That makes them certifiable. If a soldier is not able to conduct themselves in such a way that they understand they represent their ENTIRE country with their actions in combat, then they have no business being a US soldier and it says so when they join the military in their contract, as well as in the UCMJ. Perhaps they should consider joining Al Quida. That is more in line with their style of fighting.

Bobbi This is what I believe add to the miserable effects to PTSD. we realize that the things that cause our anus's to pucker and our faces contort during combat our reactions to war, and the anguish and grief caused by the death of a soldier that was just a little while ago shuckin and jivin with you. Will cause bad dreams and nightmares and will cause you to constantly think about them. But the most terrible effects of PTSD is the remembering of the uncivilized things that you do such as cuting off a ear or putting or actually gloating over the bodies of your enemy. Drain says the Marine corp ruined these Marines lives, The facts are Presidet Bush ruined many lives for instigating this stupid wasteful unjust war. The LT wass acqitted but he willlive with the guilt of what he did or failed to do for the rest of his life. I pray that he gets a decent PTSD rating.

Bobbi,

I'll, respond to your post.

When your caught up in the heat of the moment
who are we to JUDGE him????

I remember the picture of a child on the front page of Life magazene running from burns from napalm and it was reported by our media we did it,America pilot.

but it was in truth a Vietmese pilot.

there is to many times we belive the media and all the bull**** that go's with it.

As Grant said in his post him and only him will live with it.

war is ugley and those who ain't been there ain't got a *od &*mn clue.

But let all those who have not been there be the judge.

after all only 7% of our young fight our wars now.

btw good to see you posting and give my best to your vet in the house.

Jeffro, I am with you when it is in the heat of the moment. There was a case where an Iraqi was wounded by one American patrol who left him for dead. Later in the day, a 2nd American patrol came into the building and found the room with what appeared to be several dead Iraqis. But one of the "dead" Iraqis was the man wounded by the earlier patrol and when he moved, one of the troopers shot and killed him. Turned out that he was unarmed and severely wounded. Okay, that is unfortunate but it is "heat of the moment" and totally understandable.

But when men kill unarmed women and small children well after the heat of battle, I quit making excuses for them. And I ****ed well will judge them and expect others to do so, too.

Murderers, disgrace their fellow soldiers who are trying to act with honor. And they hurt the mission that they are supposed to be performing.

I guarantee you that if a foreign soldier came into my house and murdered my children, I would not give a **** how noble his mission was supposed to be. I would dedicate myself to killing him or as many like him as I could until I died.

Jeffro,

Not to discredit you but the story of Phan Thi Kim Phuc in Life magazine was not misreported by the media as you suggest. My understanding is that it was correctly reported that US coordinated attacks by the ARVN air force led to the debacle. That was accurate and the photo was sensationalized because of the times.

It's true that apparently Richard Nixon thought the picture was a fake but of course that was Nixon in denial abou the horrors of war.

It does appear later that a Cananadian produced documentary led to a mischaracterization of the photo to advance their own self interest but that wasn't until the late 1990's.

Personally, I get tired of the media being blamed for every myth or fraud that gets perpetrated into American folklore. Just like the mischaracterization of John Kerry's testimoney in the Senate hearings in the early 70's. It wasn't the media that distorted the truth but Americans with an agenda. They still do it today.

I concur with both you and JackB's opinions on this matter but I will go a step further and state that it had always bothered me that the impact of war was a crying shame on both sides and created monsters out of what would have been normal human beings.

John R...

Yesterday Lt Col Chessni
. (Commander of the Marine battalion Involved in the supposed massacre of iraqi civilians in haditha) had all charges dropped against him. He was charged with not investigated the incident. The charges were brought at the insistance of that fat Dumocrat pig John Murtha. Murthat was trying to get in good with the terrorists and the botox queen San Fran Nan. The court martial judge dropped all charges against him obviously for lack of evidence. No there is only one left SSG Frank Wutterech. The judges have to be recognized for bravery in being willing to see that justice is done. Even though they know that as soon as Osama obma takes office next january. Their Careers and all the years they spent defending the United states will be gone. Now apparently Murtha and every liberal press are in hiding on this subject. Like the RATS they are.

Draino, You are a sick person that I find to be a poor exscuse for an American. It is people like you that Michelle Obama and I have come to the point that we are finally proud to be Americans, Because we realize that now trash like you and the KKK and yourneo nazi brothers are now powerless and when ever you raise your stupid heads and let us know who and where you are we will sue you and everything that you have. but you as an individual kluer are worthless and even lacking of a personality. It is apparent that the people that care about you can be counted on five fingers and the rest of the world and the billions of people in it do not give a **** about you and people like you. On friday a good man died and the whole weekend, tribute to, for and about him were given by many people . Democrats, Republicans and Independents, It was very apparent that Tim Russert was a Liberal but he was and is and always will be respected by all parties. Draino when you sorry as leave here , you will have a whole bunch of liberals **** on your grave . and this is the last time that I waste energy and time messing with your dumb hate filled as. My fifth grade teacher told me that it is wrong to hate people. But it is hard as hell not to hate people like you. I will just ignore you.

Glant the real big difference between you and Michelle obama and myself and the republicans is this. If her husband takes the whitehouse and is the commander in chief. My constitutional rights will no longer exist. I will no longer exist 150 -200 million loyal americans wil not exist. No dumbocrat will allow their fellow americans to stay alive if they might have a different view.
However if Mc Cain is elected President you and the obamas all the democrats will have every right they now have. That is the big difference and you know it and they know it .

Now that post should make at least one person rush right out and plant a "John McBush for president" sign in their front yard.

Keep up the good work Duane maybe in a month or so you will win over another.

The only problem is those signs will be in the front yards of Mental Institutions! Because only the Mentally Unbalanced would take any of your posts serious!


150-200 Million Americans exterminated!

Duane what do you do, stay up all night to come up with this $hit to post.

There is a tv game show called " are you smarter then a 5th grader, and you failed.

Grant I agree he is not worth the effort

Grant you to need to take a better look.

And i am one on those on five fingers that have talked to him (Daune) on several occations.

I can be sure no one here has talked to him in person ?

You bring up the KKK but say nothing about the BLACK PANTHER PARTY. Is that a thing of color???????????

And talk about suing is that a Liberial thing??????

And Michele has made you proud to be an American.

Why so long???????

And I think Liberals ******* on his grave is a pretty strong statement. That should make your 5th grade teacher happy.

But to be here on this board and not be liberial is not a good thing...

You see it started here from a C.co BROTHER (Bob) about the 4th div and has in my oppion gone to hell.

As for your statmentes as mine we are and all ways will be Nam brothers. That is a bond I hope will never be broken, where it be party,race,gender,religon.

But I am afraid it is a bond that has no more inportant.

With respect

jeffro

Jeffro, for god's sake bro, do try to get a little bit real. Duane is actually claiming that the democrats are going to kill 150-200 million Americans if Obama is elected. And he is not just saying that kind of insane crap here to stir people up, he says it over on Russ's board where you all already beleive that we are some kind of enemy.

After that kind of insane horse****, why should anybody with even a tiny little bit of sense even pretend to take anything Duane says seriously?

For that matter, why do you take him seriously? Do you really believe that democrats are going to take away all of your rights and kill you? Like we did all the other times that democrats were in power, right?

And you say that this board has gone to hell. Hah.

Jeffro

With all due respect to you, please tell me just what kind of so called "brotherhood" Duane exhibits coming here and calling Combat Wounded VA Compensated Veterans "Free Loaders"? I guess that the ones that are VA Compensated on Reds board just think that they are exempt from that remark and it only pertains to the ones here.

The day he called me that he drew first blood and he gets back from me just what he dishes out and MORE. When it comes to something like the remark Duane made, I don't forgive or forget and I DON"T Consider Duane ANYKIND of Brother and I never will.

I'm speaking only for Myself. I have much respect for Both you and Red, you have both always been respectful to me. But when it comes to Duane, Its a whole nuther story!

jinks...

Jeffro . There is no coparison of the KKK and the Black Panther Party. The KKK is and has always been A terrorist organization. It has lynched , mured and abused black people for years, It preach hatred for blacks, Jews, Catholics, Homosexuals and any other group that is not WASP It hides behind sheets and masks. The Black Panther Party was a radical group of blacks and later other race's that promoted self defense and civil rights It organized positive programs in the black and Hispanic communites, The Black panthers were easily identified by their black berets and leather jackets, The black panthers did not murder anybody they tried to live up to Dr. Kings dictates of non violence but was trying to einform the country that they would protect the black community. They organized food pantries, head start centers and other black uplift programs, They let the people know that black is beautiful and that they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness like all other Americans. You can not compare the Black panthers with the KKK. As far as Michelle Obama Yes she said what a lot of Black people ,Native American, Hispanic, Japanese American and other Americans are saying. We are proud of many accomplishments that we as individuals have done , what our races have done. We are proud of many things that our country has done. but we face the facts Our country has faults and is not squeky clean. Our country has not circumsribed and kept whitin due bounds of God and Man. Our country has not practiced brotherly love as it preaches. But after the dogs, firehoses, resttlements, concentraion (Iterment) camps Finally in 2008 this great nation has seen it fit to consider a qualified American other than a WHITE MAN to be president of these united states. I for the first time in my Adult life am proud to be an America. and you know what Jeffro ? The world is proud of America for the first time . And you and Duane should be proud, regardless who you vote for Our laws allow for the election of a president every four years. If Barack Obama is elected president. He will not destroy this country in four years. President Bush has been trying to destroy it for eight years, He is doing a pretty good job , But he has not destroyed yet. So tere for Duaunes argument do not make sense. Because America was Established in Strength. and I am done repsonding to any thing Duane, post on this forum. Because man is not right.

Whoa Nellie!

Jeffro,

I agree that there is a bond formed by Vietanm veterans that is unbreakable. It is a bond not divided by the soldier's rank nor race, creed, color, religion nor POLITICS.

However, to brand this board as "liberal" is an insult to all free thinking participants of this board. Russ's board is a board for conservative minded people and I respect that. I used to participate when it was first created because I thought that there might be room for opposing viewpoints. There was not! To my knowledge I have not offended anyone on that board with perhaps the exception of AB which I never quite understood.

However, when someone like Duane cannot offer any criticism or opposing viewpoint without his sophomoric name alterations and nonsensical predictions then I must qyestion the sincereity of anyone that supports his efforts.

For anyone from the conservative right not to denounce the conduct and manner of presentation by Duane shows a very lack of respect for your own ideals and principles.
--------------

Grant,

I concurr with your characterization of the Black Panther Party aside from the financial abuses practiced by Heuy Newton. And I can tell you from personal experience with a group of Tuskegee students in late 69 that their prejudicism against whites dwarf that of the KKK. Maybe it could be justified but no more than the misguided justification of the KKK to its denigrated groups.

Many people just like Duane get got up in the rhetoric and frenzy of their positions and lose sight of rationality. My grandfather who was the kindest and most gentle man I had ever met taught me to be a gentleman, respect the flag and be gentle in your dealings with other men. After his death I found out that he was a member of the KKK in Virgnina. I figured he got caught up in the frenzy of the times. I don't believe all KKK chapters were extremists to the extent that is held out. Nethertheless, extremism in any form is not healthy for anyone especially in an open society other than as a cleasning element to establish limtis to our freedoms.

My respect to all,
John R...

John: I do not understand your last post as regards your answer to Grant. You start by saying you concur with his view of the Black Panthers. Then you go on to say that their racism, in your experience, dwarfs that of the KKK. Unless I missed something in Grant's post, that statement does not seem to support his view. Please clarify?

"The Black Panther Party was a radical group of blacks and later other race's that promoted self defense and civil rights It organized positive programs in the black and Hispanic communites, The Black panthers were easily identified by their black berets and leather jackets, The black panthers did not murder anybody they tried to live up to Dr. Kings dictates of non violence but was trying to einform the country that they would protect the black community. They organized food pantries, head start centers and other black uplift programs, They let the people know that black is beautiful and that they are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness like all other Americans."

I think that was a fair description of the Black Panthers Party platform and intentions. I think Grant implied that each organizations beginnings came from a different set of circumstances and thereby manifested their actions in an entirely different way.

Perhaps the term "dwarf" was not accurate and what I was trying to say was that both isolated themselves in such a way that segregation seemed to find common bedfellows.

I am not so sure that voluntary segregation in race, creed, color and the like is such an abominable position to take.

John R...

Thanks for the clarification John.

Ummmmmmmm, I am not posting as to whether Russell should or should not post here, cuz frankly I don't give a doody one way or the other. But to correct Duane on a point, this is not a public board, this is a private board i.e. it is funded privately, managed privately. It has been mentioned before that private boards are not "freedom of speech" boards, hence the rules listed on the home page and at the top of the forum created by those who own and run the board. I do not say this to get people riled up on who's board this is, etc. etc. I merely point out the limits set forth and that everyone who posts here had to agree to them in order to post here. Now we seldom enforce said rules....we try to give adults the opportunity to moderate themselves.

But as I said before, I am not commenting on who can or can not post here unless it is reqested by several members here that I do so for the preservation of the board. I realize that some posters can not stand the constant back and forth on political posts here and seldom visit. Of course they are always welcome to post things that do interest them.

Duane I might have some liberal views, but I am far from a total liberal I have been told I am what is called a middle of the road type. I certainly don't agree with all views by liberals or any other political views. I don't assocaite with any political party what so ever, as I think politicans have no redeeming social value in life and indeed are the domestic enemy to the constitution of the United States and to the American Citizens as well.

Robert, I pretty much agree with almost everything that you said in this last post. Unfortunately, ignoring the politicians does not make them go away - they can still hurt you. Bush is an example of how bad that they can hurt us all.

For Duane, I will offer this John McCain quote:
"I was born into service, but I really didn‘t love America until I was deprived of her company."

I guess that means that if he had been a little luckier and finished his tour without being shot down, he never would have loved America.

Or maybe people say things that sound bad when a single sentence is pulled out and paraded around to mean something that it was never intended to mean.

Things that make you go hmmm....

jackie if John Mc cain had not loved the United states he would not have stayed longer than his obligated service . He meant when he said that he didnt really love the united states until he was deprived of her company. If he said that and we only have your word on it which doent mean anthing. He mo doubt menat that the united states meant more to him when he didnt have the love of his country. That was why he and the other prisoners made americna flags held church services in the best way they could / Thats what he meant at any tinmke their lives could have been taken from them. and they didnt have the option like hanoi John to put themselves in for medal after medal and then leave when they wanted.

No, Quano, we don't just have my word for it that he said it - he used it repeatedly during his campaign against George Bush and there are tons of references still around in both print and film. Of course McCaion meant that he took America for granted until he got into hard times.

But see how quick you were to put McCain's questionable statement into a context that made it more favorable? And that is something that you will never do for anyone whom you do not worship.

To me, that pretty much makes you a turd in a man suit.

Duane why is it know that McCain, does not stand behind benefits for Veterans, check his voting record.

Just so you know there are some things about McCain I do like, so I am not totally against him.The same for Obama, some things I like and some I do not.

But not one of them has to do with color or race as seems to bother you.

Duane,

How do you know why McCain stayed in the service? Were you there the moment he made the decision? Did he consult with you? Were you in his mind?

John R...

Heat of the moment? If that is the case, let every woman and man who killed someone go free in or prisons cuz they were caught up in the moment. My comments were not about accidental killings, etc. We were talking about a guy who decided that he wanted to "play" with the bodies in a sick and depraved manner and then tell others he did so. Somebody has to be accountable for something in this world.

Sadly, PTSD does cause people to be more prone to acting out. If these soldiers have PTSD and are still in combat, they need to be removed if they are not able to conduct themselves according to th UCMJ. Period. Especially if the Army refuses to help them while continuing to send them back into combat. I think screening for PTSD should be done once every few months or more while serving in a combat zone. And then treated properly to avoid such public humiliations like these by soldiers. It is bad for EVERYONE involved if we continue to accept status quo. PTSD is managable and even curable in some cases. Probably more so if the treatment were more widespread.