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THIS website is a private SUPPORT SITE for 4th ID veterans, active duty soldiers, family members, friends and everyone who supports our troops no matter how you feel about our leaders. Troublemakers, gossips. trolls, liars, etc are NOT welcome here. Posts that defame,, humiliate and/or intimidate other posters or the webmaster will be deleted without notice or comment. Please read the rules on the Main Page, thank you!
This forum has a long history, by interent standards anyway-unfortunately it has been abandoned for far too long due to real life circumstances knocking the heck out of what had been my very real desire to keep this board alive and well forever so that all of us could meet here and communicate with each other everyday.

I'm not sure that a forum like this is even needed nowadays since the advent of facebook, etc...but I hope that this once thriving BB does bring some of us back together again and that maybe some new folks will join us as well!   
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60 years

what a difference 60 years makes!!!

I know everyone has a different opinion on the war and our current President. But, this article makes a lot of sense, and I hope you will take 2 minutes and read it and give it some thought. I have never seen the "situation" expressed any better in words! Recently I was talking to a friend about the upcoming election and the candidates. As we ended our discussion he said "the only decision you have to make is who you want sitting in that seat in the White House when - not if - when we get hit again and millions of American lives are put at risk!"

This is from : "You ain't gonna like losing." Author unknown.

President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq

Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WWII. It is not.

Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to back those leaders.

Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not.

And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.

Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort.

Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.

You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted.

And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance, and with prayers for our country and our troops!

Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies.

A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning.

There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets.

No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve.

It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorra and the land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices.

We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over three hundred million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause... Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits. So... We either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall.

Re: 60 years

I agree if the people can't support the President, in his personal vendettas, F*CK THEM! Hey, it's a volunteer Army; who cares how many get maimed or killed. Nude bodies are obcenity - Dead bodies are not. It is our duty to support our fuher... excuse me I meant leader, no matter what. Dissent is unpatriotic - lock them all up.

Re: 60 years

Well, Jeffro, if America is at the mall that is because that is where the president told them to go.

If America doesn't know the details about the war in Iraq, it is because Bush and his boys want it that way.

Bush didn't fail in the so-called war on terror, he just frigging plain gave up on it. He quit chasing Bin Laden and his top leaders, agreed with Musharaff to let Al-Queda have a safe haven in the Pakistan/Afghanistan borders area, and went treasure hunting in Iraq.

The level of incompetence shown by this government in the face of an attack on our country is astounding. And yet you yahoos just keep cheering him on. As long as our troops are killing ragheads, y'all don't seem to give a **** if they are the ones that actually attacked us at all.

It continues to be a god****ed shame.

Re: 60 years

AHHHH I did't think you would get it.

But good answers.

hope you a good and SAFE 4th.

Re: 60 years


You didn't say who wrote that missive you posted but to me it was one of the most ill-informed, asinine diatribes that I have read in recent years.

John R...

Re: 60 years

John for your information it was sent to me by my sister who recived it from our uncle who is a 85 year old retired general out of the Air force.

It also states author unknown.

and you to have a good 4th.

Re: 60 years

Even old Generals can become senile.

Re: 60 years

I'm sorry, Jeffro, I know that you posted it, but I am afraid that you are the one who doesn't get it.

In WWII, Americans had a sense of common purpose - the whole ****ed country was at war and the whole ****ed country sacrificed to meet the challenge that faced them.

In the current situation, the entire premise was different. We had a bunch of citizens killed by a handful of fanatics. Neither America nor any of its allies were ever in any danger of being conquered or overrun.

Still, the country was fully behind the Administration when it invaded Afghanistan with the intent of wiping out the people who planned the terrorist attacks on America. Had Bush continued and completed that mission, he would probably be thought much better of today.

Instead, Bush chose to abandon the mission that nearly all Americans supported and to start a whole new war against a tin-pot dictator who was no threat to us at all.

And in starting that war, the Bush Administration deliberately chose to distance the American people from the war and its consequences. Unlike WWII, when every American felt like they had a stake in the outcome,

In WWII, Americans had to ration gas, sugar, meat. Casualty lists were published regularly, victories and defeats were front page news. Americans' daily lives were affected.

Bush and his *******s have made every effort to hide Iraq and its effects from Americans. The pain, suffering and sacrifice of Iraq has been left to the relatively few who voluntarily served in the military - and their families, of course. And, of course, the hundred thousand or so mercenaries - whose hiring is contributing to the value of the stock options that Cheney still holds.

You simply cannot compare an attack on America by a few terrorists with WWII in which we were at war with several very powerful countries. Nor can you overly blame Americans for doing what its government has asked them to do - ignore Iraq and get on with their shopping.

Re: 60 years

Jeffro. I remember those days very well althouh I was only a lttle boy. I remember Gadriel Heater andhis comments about there is good newsto night. and ella fiztgerald with a tisket a tasket her little yellow basket. I remember the ration stamps with the tanks and planes on them and prety colors pink ,purpole, I remember the bond drives, I remember Elanor Roosevelt helping black soldiers fight for the right to fight. I remember the good things and I remember the bad things I remember that after the War came more hatred and discrimination toward races and women. I remember freedom of religion then. Where is freedom of religion now. If we put prayer in school what religion will it be. I Taught in the Chicago public schools for 19 years and we recited the pledge of allegience every morning and we made accomidations and acceptance of the varios religions such as jehvah wittneses until some sunshine patriot started complaing I remembert the coat hanger abotions and the voo doo chemicals use to end an unwanted pregnacy. I remember the rumors about babies being abored and buried behind convnts of the religion that is so against legal abortions Jeffro a lot has changed in 60years. is it better or worse?

Re: 60 years

Well put Grant.

Re: 60 years

Jack B and Grant very well said!

Re: 60 years

I have only one THING TO SAY TO THIS bb,

Doc my uncle has more wisdom in his little finger than you could ever imagine, and is still sharp as a tack. You don't know him there for you speck from ingorance. nuff said.

Grant This country has been in trouble for alot of years that includes a goverment of waste and has been out of touch with the American people,that includes all who serive us not just Bush. Congress is rottin as well.This country is in deep ****. it is not because of one administration as this bb would like to demonstrate. my uncle did not write the piece, You can read the other post and come to your on conclusion. You make up your own mind. I have not talked with him since Hurricane Katrina went through Mobile.But i would say the reason he sent this to my sister was his dout that this country could win another war or the lack of patiorusim to go with it.
That is my statement on this post and will be my last on this bb.

Jackb (!) you bic.

JohnR (?) There are alot of assinine statments just go back through it's history.

Re: 60 years

One of the very big reasons the U S won ww2 is because then franklin roosevelts political oppoistion were loyal american republicans. They did despise Roosevelt. Wilkie Taft and the other leaders of the republican party and a lot of the ordinary citizens who were republicans . But they were first and foremost americans . That is not the case today. Most democrats because Bush won two Presidential elections and the conflict in Iraq has turned form defeat to victory. The democrats dont like it. The N Y Times goes out of its way to turn over classified information to the enemy and not a single democrat here or in the congress says a word against it. In WW2 roosevelt would have had the editor othat commie paper hung. When Roosevelt intered 100s of thousand of american citizens . His opposition didnt try to get him impeached because they knew it was for the safety of the nation. Now a terrorist has a little water sprinkled on him which likely saved the lives of perhaps thousands of americans. And every dem in the congress comes out in favor of the terrorists.
The likelyhood is that Bin laden is dead has been dead
He hasnt been seen. the taliban is losing in afghanistan just as al queda is losing in Iraq. The only place terorism is winning is on this board and in the minds of the wimpy dems in congress. They cant even get votes to cut off funding for iraq and afghanistan even though on paper they have a majority. They tried to stop the terrorist surveiance program couldnt do that. They may have accomplished part of their goal to give the terrorists a chance to maybe attack this country again by not letting surveilance of the terrorist go on for a couple of months so now the program has to start from scratch. Where ever jeffros uncle got this piece doesnt matter. It tells the truth.
Today in iraq 1100 soldiers re enlisted. I say that shows just how good they are and how much they love this country. No doubt you guys will put them down because they do have that love and loyalty to the United States. Jeffro has said he wont come back here and thats his right . But ill be back again and again.

Re: 60 years


Once again, "delusional".


Sorry you can't take legitimate criticsim. You might reflect on the following quotes. Happy 4th, bro.

John R...

"Mankind has a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it."
- Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770
---John Adams

Re: 60 years

Jeffro I have been a member of the US armed forces since 1952, when I enlisted in the Illinois national guard. Iwas issued brown boots So there fore I am considered to be a brown boot Soldier On 1 sept 1956 We dyed our shoes black. Since the day I was issued my brown boots I have saw nothing but change and improvement. Somethings that have changed I did not like but evevery thing that has changed has improved our armed forces I have seen the transformation of an army geared for convientinal war fare where one massive army closes with another massive army. To a army trained and organized for nuclear warefare that called for disperial of troop called the pentomic concept,With the improved tecnoligy and industrialization of potential opposing forces the army restuctured for warfare in all locals and configured under the ROAD concept of reorganization of army divisions. After Vietnam the VOLAR concept and the reocnizeing of the abilities and desires of women when reconized and appreciated and the rapid enlistment of women and the end of consription created the all volunter armed force. and at the same time we restuctured for Limited ware leading to The modular concept. I have observed changes in all of our armed services. and I have seen nothing but improvement in all of them I do see some of the negative points that you allude to but I try to concentrate on all of the positive things about our forces and our government I see a armed force that is and have equipment developed by people wwith doctorate and master degrees This equipment is maned and operated by people with master and bachelor degrees and this high tech equipment and our great armed forces has a back bone of people with high school diplomas. I am in contact with our young Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines every day as I live one mile from Great lakes navy base and Mep Com. I worked as an army instructor for nineteen years as a army instructor with the chicago schhol system I had two educator tours with the navy and one with the Marine corps I know that we have an awesome armed force of dedicated motivated force of men and women that have been inspired by those of us that served befor them. I see a strong government that is not always right , But right or wrong. My government and I will be a good citizen and vote for the administration that I feel will improve this country in the next four years as it has been improved since I was a brown boot Soldier. I hope you will too.

Re: 60 years

Grant I agree on you points about our armed forces. I retired in June 1989 after 22 years of service. I never was a brown boot solider but I want to thank you for the ground work that was laid back then to enhance our armed forces. I try to find some good in our government also, but I fail as I do not trust nor do I have an esteem for any politican. I think our system of government "deomocracy" is ideal, however, I truly feel that politicans have gotten away from "We the people, by the people, for the people" have fallen to "My own polictical agenda". There are 551 people in the offices of government from the Executive office on down. If these 551 people didn't want a war in Iraq there wouldn't be, If these 551 people didn't want high gas prices there wouldn't be, If these 551 people didn't want inflation there wouldn't be. Instead regardless of political party they play the blame game. It is ashame when some of the most highly educated people in our country can't put their own little petty differences aside and do what is best for the citizens of this country.

Re: 60 years

I can not say that I am madly in love with any particular politician or political party. But as a com man and a minority . I feel most comfortable with the democratic party how ever I did vote for the older bush for his second term because I fell for the patriotic war heroe bull crap. I have found that most politicians be they liberal or cnservative become moderates when they are elected, as Obama is becomeing now in an effort to get the support of all of the people. I feel that most ethnic grops were democrat, until that group or individual of that group becomes wealthy and then they choose to become republicans. I cave come to realize that America. do not have the best form of government. But I will support it until a better one comes along. As I have stated each American has two choices , Vote or not vote. For those of us that choose to vote we then have three choices , Democrat, Republican or other. Regardless as to who ever become the next president of this great country. I will keep on keeping on as long as my God allows me.