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THIS website is a private SUPPORT SITE for 4th ID veterans, active duty soldiers, family members, friends and everyone who supports our troops no matter how you feel about our leaders. Troublemakers, gossips. trolls, liars, etc are NOT welcome here. Posts that defame,, humiliate and/or intimidate other posters or the webmaster will be deleted without notice or comment. Please read the rules on the Main Page, thank you!
This forum has a long history, by interent standards anyway-unfortunately it has been abandoned for far too long due to real life circumstances knocking the heck out of what had been my very real desire to keep this board alive and well forever so that all of us could meet here and communicate with each other everyday.

I'm not sure that a forum like this is even needed nowadays since the advent of facebook, etc...but I hope that this once thriving BB does bring some of us back together again and that maybe some new folks will join us as well!   
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Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

September 10, 2008

CHICAGO -- U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said he was less than thrilled the U.S. Army had licensed a clothing store to sell 1rst Infantry Division insignia.

Sears said last week it had reached an agreement with the Army and would begin a line of All American Army Brand clothing for men, women and boys, Crain's Business Journal reported.

The licensing fee is to go toward programs that benefit army personnel and their families, Crain's reported.

But, Murtha, chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, said he was "astounded" the Army had made a deal, Crain's reported.

"That patch is to be worn by only people who served in the 1rst Division. What right does the Army have to sell our patch?" Charles Horner, a retired Army officer who works for Murtha, told Crain's.

Sears declined to comment on Murtha's reaction. But, an Army representative said "strong brand identification through retail sales of products potentially can enhance the Army's recruiting efforts and the public's general goodwill toward the Army and its activities," Crain's reported Tuesday.

[total bullshit as far as I am concerned]

Re: Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

You can get Army insignia in all kinds of places. And Sears has a very liberal policy toward employees who are called up as well as provides material at no or low cost to help convert the homes of wounded veterans for improved mobility. So if they can benefit, too, I say have at it! They've repeatedly put their money where their mouth is.

Re: Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

So why bother with all those "stolen valor" laws? If a surplus store sells patches or insignia, this doesn't mean they can legally be worn by civillians. The Army has specifically licensed this patch to be worn on a line of civillian clothing. I wonder how long it will take some wannabee's lawyer to claim he was only doing what Sears was. I agree with SSG Mike - BULLSHIT!

PS: You can also buy military related clothing at the VA store, or an Army PX; this is still not the same as licensing it to a retail outlet dealing primarily with civillians.

Re: Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

They had some neat t-shirts at the Exchange that I tried to buy. They told me I'd have to show proof that I was active as they were the new PT gear. They also will not sell uniforms to anyone who isn't active. I was never in the 4th Division but I have a couple t shirts that have the 4th division insignia on them. I guess that's why I don't get why this is such a big deal. But let me re-read the original post. Maybe I missed something.

Re: Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

It's hard to explain. Granted there is no way we can stop people from purchasing insignia, and claiming they earned it - short of catching, and prosecuting, them.
The issue, as I see it, is the Army AUTHORIZING the use of a division patch as civillian apparel. The "BIG RED ONE" has a long, and proud, history. Many men died while earning the right to wear their patch. I think it is tacky for the Army to authorize its' use as a merchandising device, no matter how good the intentions are. I know if this were proposed for the "IVY" patch, I'd be pissed.
The issue of who is authorized to wear insignia has always been a matter of "good taste," as much as legality. I'm not sure if even Veterans were, technically, authorized to continue wearing insignia until fairly recently. However, no one was going to dispute our right. The same applies to hand salutes, which was only recently authorized. I've been doing it for years, and was never chastised for it.
After the first "Gulf War," I took an eight year old to the "Welcome Home" parade in Chicago. He wanted to wear his fatigues. I said "Fine," and also let him wear my ribbons and CIB. The troops were all greeting him and saying things like "Welcome Home Doc." They knew he was wearing the insignia out of respect. I could tell it gave him a feeling of pride. When we got home I told his Mother about it. She asked him "I hear the soldiers thought you were a veteran?" He replied, "I think they knew the ribbons belonged to Bill."
The point here is not so much points of law. The point is respect. I think the Army's decision to license marketing of the 1st Division patch is disrespectful to the men who've worn it.

I wanted to go to a 1st Infantry forum, and get their opinion about this. The site I found was pretty complicated to enter comments on. I had the impression they wanted to keep it restricted to members of "The Big Red One Society." Suprisingly, I couldn't find a thread on this topic.

Re: Army’s Deal with Sears Angers Murtha

A few years ago I entered the independent living program of the VA vocational rerhabilitation program. I decided to use my knowledge and talents that I had acquired in the Army. I open a business as a Military design consultant. I have learned that most . Distictive unit insignia, Shoulder sleeve insignia Crest, and Mottos are public domain can can be used by the public However unit colors can be reproduced only with the approval of the unit commander However to use USAF insignia a person must apply for a license from the USAF.I have designed and produce many items with the DUI, Crest, and motto but usal to be used by the unit or Veteran association of the unit for fund raising The main purpose of my productions is to show support for the unit I am registered as a DOD vendor. But as a life long Soldier It is my plan to keep prices low and for Soldiers, Veterans, Family , and Friends to be able to show pride in thier unit. Ready and Forward.