"Where is it above your "bottom line" that you took care of the
church-state problem? I cant seem to spot it somehow."
There is no church-state problem. Is the government establishing a
religion? No. This is more of a practical issue.
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
It might be that you should read up on some of the situations the courts
have called establishing. The ACLU threatens, and files, lawsuits over
all kinds of things that are considerably less than allowing regular
religious ceremonies on public property.
dmc
The issue isn't about allowing regular religious ceremonies on public
property. It is about parking. But parking tickets are being written
while people are practicing their faith, which they have every right to
do. The government has nothing to do with this. It is also in the
First Amendment that the government can't prohibit the free exercise of
religion.
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
"First Amendment that the government can't prohibit the free exercise of religion."
First you say it's all about parking. Now it's that the gvmt is
forbidding the Muslims from praying?
Where did I ever say the government is forbidding the Muslims from
praying?
Here's the reality we have to deal with:
Muslims are praying, which under the First Amendment they have every
right to do.
While they are at the O'Hare staging area, they park their cabs to pray.
The only places they can park are either (1) illegal or (2) they will
block other cabs from going into the terminals.
The Muslims decided that the best solution is to (1) not block other
taxicabs and (2) lobby to change the laws so that they can park legally
in places that won't harm traffic flow.
Your answer is that the laws shouldn't change, even if they aren't
reasonable, because you don't want to accomodate Muslims. It is well
within the government's discretion to address these kinds of issues.
Just because there is a religious theme that is the reason for the
parking problem doesn't mean that the government can't address the
parking problem.
Forget for a second that the parking situation has anything at all to do
with religion. I'll give you a similar example that is going on right
now, also in Chicago. There is a train station at 500 W. Madison that
used to have a cab stand right in front. The city decided to have that
cabstand removed, allegedly for traffic reasons. But people keep
walking out of the train station and naturally hailing cabs. So cabs
are naturally pulling over to pick them up. And then they're getting
tickets. The city has had hearings and deliberations about this very
issue and they seem to think that there is a good reason that cabs
shouldn't park there. Anyway, they considered the problem and made a
decision, as government should do, weighing all factors.
Now in this case, they should also make a decision to address a
naturally occurring problem. They need to decide if the "No Parking"
restriction should be lifted or not - not simply to bow to pressures or
accomodate a religious group in spite of the repercussions - but because
it makes sense. If the Muslim cabdrivers were blocking cabs from going
into the terminals and they claimed they had the right to do this for
the sake of religious freedom, I would not side with this cause. But
that's not what's happening. They have created a logical solution to an
obvious problem and I see no reason it shouldn't be considered.
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
Is removing the No Parking restriction a real answer? Unless someone then designates the area for Muslim Prayer use only, anyone could park there. If you did set it aside for one minority only then you discriminate against the majority of the population. Also the Minority should have to pay for the upkeep and repairs of this area. Now the can of worms is big enough to go fishing with for Texas fish.
Cliff, Boise Idaho USA
"Unless someone then designates the area for Muslim Prayer use only,
anyone could park there. If you did set it aside for one minority only
then you discriminate against the majority of the population."
You are correct. The room at O'Hare that the Muslims use for praying is
not legally exclusive to them. I suppose that when they're using it, it
is a mosque and when Christians use it, it is a church, etc.
Again, this is a parking issue. The parking restrictions would not be set aside for one minority. I would suggest that the parking restrictions be lifted by anyone using the prayer/meditation room - not just Muslims. Prudent limitations to make the parking situation manageable could be imposed as well.
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
"Your answer is that the laws shouldn't change, even if they aren't reasonable, because you don't want to accomodate Muslims."
Now it's my turn. When did I ever say that?
Dennis,
I didn't mean for that to be directed toward you when I said, "Your answer is that the laws shouldn't change, even if they aren't reasonable, because you don't want to accomodate Muslims."
I meant for that to be directed toward dmc when he wrote, "If it's just parking today, what is it tomorrow?...In Europe there have been murders and threats of murder for those speaking out against Islam."
I got caught up in my writing and forgot that I was responding to you.
I apologize.
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
"There is no church-state problem. Is the government establishing a religion? No. This is more of a practical issue."
There are a few blocks in Denver that have signs stating; "NO
PARKING ANYTIME EXCEPT SUNDAY 8 AM-12 PM". Oh, did I mention that there
are christian churches on those blocks? Who's accommodating who? Is the
City and County of Denver "respecting an establishment of religion"?
Karl in Denco
"Is the City and County of Denver "respecting an establishment of
religion"?
I don't know. Are they? Or are they addressing a parking issue due to
traffic flow as the Muslim cabdrivers here in Chicago are asking our
city to do?
Hey dmc, would you advise that the city of Denver discontinue
this parking exception on Sunday?
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
"I don't know. Are they? Or are they addressing a parking issue due to traffic flow as the Muslim cabdrivers here in Chicago are asking our city to do?"
Trying to tune in to the finer shades of gray here...
I don't think the City and County of Denver is respecting an
establishment of religion in this case. Traffic engineers can look at the
problem and say; "Well, there is a greatly reduced flow of traffic on this
street on a Sunday morning. Allowing parking on this street during those
hours will reduce parking pressures in the neighborhood during services and
allow local residents the ability to park when returning to their residences."
An international airport is a different place. I'm unfamiliar
with the taxi holding lots at O'hare. It would seem to me that if you were
at the airport to conduct business, you're there to conduct business. I
also don't know if the drivers who are praying are interfering with the
normal traffic flow at the airport.
I understand that in the muslim faith, if you miss a prayer you
can make it up when you have the chance. If a cab line is moving in such a
manner where you have to park in NO PARKING zones to pray, wouldn't it be
best to wait until you've dropped off your customer and then make up the
prayer? In a quiet neighborhood park, away from a noisy, bustling
international airport?
Karl in Denco
What's with all this concern over traffic flow?
FACT: No taxi has ever blocked traffic flow to the terminals because it was illegally parked while the driver went to pray.
"Seems to me the solution is to change the law."
Are you proposing a constitutional convention or are we just talking parking? If it's just parking today, what is it tomorrow? Public property is public property, is it appropriate to hold religious ceremonies on public property? Sooner or later some bold atheist is going to sue the various airport entities for allowing these ceremonies. It will be interesting to see how long it takes and what the results are, both in the courts and on the streets. In Europe there have been murders and threats of murder for those speaking out against Islam. Can't happen here though, right? Eventually we will know.
dmc
Why are you against creating a practical solution for an obvious
problem? If there were reasons that the accomodation shouldn't be made,
I'd love to hear them. From what I understand so far, your point is
simply that the problem that has an obvious and harmless solution
shouldn't be solved because you're afraid Muslims will get out of
control?
Regards,
George Lutfallah
Chicago Dispatcher
I have a practical solution in mind:
All one would need is one this big yellow bull dozzer/earth movers they have parked at O'Hare (waiting for snow removal action) and maybe ten minutes...there will be a new "Stop & Pray" parking areas accessible from the terminal service road.
You have legal "accommodation" called The United states Constitution.
Westerners are used to mostly indoor religious services and ceremonies.
And societies protectors, the cops, are usually the last in line to get tolerant.
"Once (they) realize that "eastern" values have a rightful place in this wonderful multi-patchwork-quilt culture, physical accommodations, brotherly tolerance, and due respect will surely follow...."
AS the Reverend Jackson put it: Keep hope alive. Keep the faith!
Non-Duality of The Mind
"We are both the mind and the observer of the mind."
We tend to think that our feelings are separate from ourselves when we mentally observe them as an outside observer, such as with negative feelings, we either dwell on them or try to chase them away, considering these thoughts as an enemy force. Billions of dollars are spent each year in prescription drugs to presumably alleviate these thoughts and feelings. Yet in reality, our feelings are us. We are both the observer of our mind and the visitor inside, who feels and thinks. When we are able to recognize that we are one with our thoughts and feelings we can find our original Buddha nature and inner peace.
The Guard - Or The Monkey's Shadow?
By Thick Nhat Hahn
While practicing mindfulness, don't be dominated by the distinction between good and evil, thus creating a battle within oneself.
Whenever a wholesome thought arises, acknowledge it: "A wholesome thought has just arisen." And if an unwholesome thought arises, acknowledge it: "An unwholesome thought has arisen." Don't dwell on it or try to get rid of it, h however much you don't like lit. T acknowledge it is . If you have departed, then you muss know that you have departed, and if you are still there, know that you're still there. Once you have reached such an awareness, there will be nothing you need fear anymore.
When I mentioned the guard at the emperor's gate, perhaps you imagined a front corridor with two doors, one entrance and one exit, with your mind as the guard. Whatever feeling or thought enters, you are aware of its entrance, and when it leaves, you are aware of its exit. But the image has a shortcoming: it suggests that those who enter and exit the corridor are different from the guard. In fact our thoughts and feelings are us. They are a part of ourselves. There is a temptation to look upon the, or at least some of them, as an enemy force which is trying to disturb the concentration and understanding of your mind. But in fact, when we are angry, we ourselves are anger. When we are happy, we ourselves are happiness. When we have certain thoughts, we are these thoughts. We are both the guard and the visitor at the same time. We are both the mind and the observer of the mind. Therefore, chasing away or dwelling on any thought isn't the important thing. The important thing is to be aware of the thought. This observation is not an objectification between subject and object. Mind does not grab on to mind; mind does not push mind away. Mind can only observer itself. This observation isn't an observation of some object outside and independent of the observer.
Remember the Koan of the Zen Master Bach An who asked, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" Or take the example the taste the tongue experiences: what separates taste and tastebud? The mind experiences itself directly within itself. This is of special importance, and so in the Sutra of Mindfulness, Buddha always uses the phrasing "mindfulness of feeling in feeling, mindfulness of mind in mind." Some have said that the Buddha used this phrasing in order to put emphasis on such words as feeling and mind, but I don't think they have fully grasped the Buddha's intention. Mindfulness of feeling in feeling is mindfulness of feeling directly while experiencing feeling, and certainly not contemplation of some image of feeling which one creates to give feeling some objective, separate existence of its own outside of oneself. Descriptive words make it sound like a riddle or paradox or tongue twister: mindfulness of feeling in feeling is the mind experiencing mindfulness of the mind in the mind. The objectivity of an outside observer to examine something is the method of science, but it not the method of meditation. Thus that image of the guard and the visitor fails to illustrate adequately the mindful observation of mind.
The mind is like a monkey swinging from branch to branch through a forest, says the Sutra. In order not to lose sight of the monkey by some sudden movement, we must watch the monkey constantly and event o be one with it. Mind contemplating mind is like an object and its shadow - the object cannot shake the shadow off. The two are one. Wherever the mind goes, it still lies in the harness of the mind. The Sutra sometimes uses the expression "bind the monkey" to refer to taking hold of the mind. But the monkey image is only a means of expression. Once the mind is directly and continually aware of itself, it is not longer like a monkey. There are not two minds, one which swings from branch to branch and another which follows after to bind it with a piece of rope.
The person who practices meditation usually hopes to see into h is or her own nature in order to obtain awakening. But if you are just beginning, don't wait for anything. Especially don't wait to see the Buddha or any version of "ultimate reality" while you're sitting.
In the first six months, try only to build up your power of concentration, to create an inner calmness and serene joy. You will shake off anxiety, enjoy total rest, and quite your mind. You will be refreshed and gain a broader, clearer view of things, and deepen and strengthen the love in yourself. And you will be able to respond more helpfully to all around you.
Sitting in meditation is nourishment for your spirit and nourishment for your body as well. Through sitting, our bodies obtain harmony, feel lighter, and are more at peace. The path from the observation of your mind to seeing into your own nature won't be too rough. Once you are able to quite your mind, once your feelings and thoughts no longer disturb you, at that point your mind will being to dwell in mind. Your mind will take hold of mind in a direct and wondrous way which no longer differentiates between subject and object. Drinking a cup of tea, the seeming distinction between the one who drinks and the tea being drunk evaporates. Drinking a cup t of tea becomes a direct and wondrous experience in which the distinction between subject and object no long exists.
Dispersed mind is also mind, just as waves rippling in water are also water. When mind has taken h old of mind, deluded mind becomes true mind. True mind is our real self is the Buddha, the pure one-ness which cannot be cut up by the illusory divisions of separate selves, crated by concepts and language. But I don't want to say a lot about this.
FOOTNOTES:
1
Thick Nhat Hahn - The Miracle of Mindfulness
In London, cab drivers are getting tickets for stopping to go to the toilet even though the parking attendants know where you are (and what you are doing)! They hide around the corner to catch us.
Last year I even got a ticket for helping a one-legged man just a short distance from the cab into a local store - and that after I explained to the parking attendant that I would be no more than 30 seconds.
Alan in London
I thought I would throw a couple of cents in on this fray. Obviously the timing of prayer is well known and a dignified approach might be to sequester ones self along one line not moving or even choose to avoid being "in play" at the aforementioned "known" time. Choosing the high road would mean making it a practice to represent ones overt demonstration of faith in a manor most suited to the objective. This would mean, as I best gather, that the personal effort to pray would be accomplished with out causing any disturbance.
I have observed the parking and double parking of taxi's along the roadways past the spitters. I have also seen line after line where a taxi has been abandoned in the moving line, I have pictures and I have seen the disruption and mild confusion it causes.
Are the tickets justified, sure it's the law. That is why the city writes the tickets. By the way, do you think every employee wants to add to the already conflicted situation by doing their job and writing tickets? No way. They want to avoid being told to write the ticket, but by their hand - it is their job. Just like by the hand of the prayer gathering drivers who put their cab and park and took the keys out of the ignition in the non parking location.
No matter what the excuse - scheduled or unscheduled, that's bad form. The area that all of the cars congregate is tight and very high exposure for incident. Every one of the Three Cab lanes, the short trip line and the two or three operating Limo lines all compress into one lane just past this "convenient" No parking area. That is the reason it is a "No Parking Area", to keep all of the lanes open. It's commerce and congestion all bundled up into one area. Add 10 or 15 cabs parked or double parked and the potential is clear. Not to mention the cars left in what moments before were stationary cab lanes.
It starts with just a few folks and ends up with a multitude. Possibly those drivers who park in the drive lanes are "jumping" their fellow congregation members? Pulling thru when they are needed in the terminals (how else do they get there?), then "staying" a while. Looks a lot like "special treatment" for sure. Maybe the answer lies in the behavior, I think it's in the minds and hearts of those men. This is a major transportation hub and the lot is well planned and executed process which provides for many a traveler and driver a like. Would parking and prayer on the North West end avoid conflict, be a quieter location and afford less conflict? Everyone caught behind an empty cab in the moving line would agree a different location might be better. It's not Muslim cabs getting ticketed, it's not a consideration being forgotten - it is a consequence of the first persons action(s). Let's plan for this in the future - seems like the effort to complain might have been better spent making a solution which works for the field and driver population as a whole.
Who was that genius who figured out that the best place to put the prayer facility is next to one of the busiest intersections at O'Hare and not make room for the taxicabs anyway?
No one thought of the fact that the worshipers, being taxicab drivers would bring their taxicabs?
That's sure to earn a Congressional Medal of Boner.
We call this town the "City of the Big Shoulders":
Not because of Carl Sandburg's poem:
CHICAGO
Hog Butcher for the World,
Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,
Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;
Stormy, husky, brawling,
City of the Big Shoulders:
They tell me you are wicked and I believe them, for I
have seen your painted women under the gas lamps
luring the farm boys.
And they tell me you are crooked and I answer: Yes, it
is true I have seen the gunman kill and go free to
kill again.
And they tell me you are brutal and my reply is: On the
faces of women and children I have seen the marks
of wanton hunger.
And having answered so I turn once more to those who
sneer at this my city, and I give them back the sneer
and say to them:
Come and show me another city with lifted head singing
so proud to be alive and coarse and strong and cunning.
Flinging magnetic curses amid the toil of piling job on
job, here is a tall bold slugger set vivid against the
little soft cities;
Fierce as a dog with tongue lapping for action, cunning
as a savage pitted against the wilderness,
Bareheaded,
Shoveling,
Wrecking,
Planning,
Building, breaking, rebuilding,
Under the smoke, dust all over his mouth, laughing with
white teeth,
Under the terrible burden of destiny laughing as a young
man laughs,
Laughing even as an ignorant fighter laughs who has
never lost a battle,
Bragging and laughing that under his wrist is the pulse.
and under his ribs the heart of the people,
Laughing!
Laughing the stormy, husky, brawling laughter of
Youth, half-naked, sweating, proud to be Hog
Butcher, Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat, Player with
Railroads and Freight Handler to the Nation.
(by Carl Sandburg)
Blogger's note: We call this town the "City of the Big Shoulders" because they don't call this town the "City of those who think things through to the end."
And why might that be so?
Respectfully submitted by,
-wjw-
It is clear enough that the City isn't going to push this issue far/into the courts. This is the kind of matter that is a loser on constitutional grounds for DCS.
The open offer for free representation in the Circuit Court of Cook County to anyone ticketed for praying while parked appears to have been sufficient to assure my Muslim cousins the opportunity to worship as their faith requires without being tormented.
That open offer stands.
Donald Nathan, Esq.
