Steve Kim wrote:
When I read george's article for a more perpect union, I have thinking about the reality regarding the follows.
1. How George know union as his idea to use a word a "perpect". If that was real perpect union, he have to make an answer, why most New York Taxi drivers are belong to NYTWA, instead of union.Can George answer for this matter historical approch with real fact? Can you do it?
My reply:
Steve, New York taxi drivers don't have the rights to form a union, just as we currently don't. The NYTWA is all they have. The NYTWA is not very effective in what they do, no matter how many members they claim to have. New York taxi drivers are no better off than we are, even with all your perceived power of the NYTWA. The NYTWA is a paper tiger. We have the chance to get collective bargaining. That's what the NYTWA claims to want but has failed to get. If you don't believe me, why don't you ask them yourself? You can call Bhairavi Desai at (917)945-7286.
2. How George can say the union as perpect without knowing about Chicago Taxi drivers opinion? Did he get any survey for this from the third party's work? How many percentage of taxi driver want to be a independent contractor or not ? I don't think George have this data. Without basic data, how he can say that was a more perpect union? Without any proof, Only he insisted that will be perpect union. I definitely sure that was a dictatorship.So you should provide first the data and proof why it is a perct union 1)which will be from taxi driver's opinion 2) and that data should be from third party, not you and your company. Can you do that? I am sure you will not do it at this moment.
My reply:
Steve, you're missing the point entirely. What we're talking about is the opportunity to get power that we don't already have. Drivers will decide for themselves whether they want a union or not. What we're fighting for is the right to form a union. Don't you think we should have the right to form a union or do you think that we should have to beg for everything we get and make demands without having any muscle?
Steve Kim wrote:
3. Without any data from taxi driver, and posibility for making a union, Goerge can not provide the perspect for schedule such as length of period, organization, decision maker,etc. If Goerge want to do this, you are not a qualified person because you owned the profit company which will make a Conflit of interest.If he ignore the rule of conflit of interest, that means he want to be a dictator.
My reply:
As already stated, schedules and time tables will be discussed internally. Regarding your belief that I am looking to be a dictator, I have already clearly stated that I would like to see a democratic organization. That means no self-appointed titles. Do you have a problem with that Mr. Vice Chairman?
Steve Kim wrote:
4. By the way, what he think how long take a time to see that kind of perpect union? 10 years, 20 years.. Tell me how long take a time without any delay. I sure George do not have a idea. If he has a idea for this, I think he will not say a more perpect union cause time period is too long and it will not a perpect union. Can you agree? I hope to see a perpect union in my life time.
My reply:
How long it will take is not known for certain at this time, though I do have a general idea, which will be discussed with our team and disclosed in due time. We're working on this. The alternative is never. Is that what you want?
Steve Kim wrote:
The point is: Geroge know it well, but he insist it as perpect union and he want to manage the work for a more perpect union and tell to evrybody. Why?
My reply:
Steve, have you not been given the opportunity to be a part of this? Has that opportunity not been publicly extended to everyone?
Steve Kim wrote:
That answer for this question is 1) he want to not having any of successful organization for taxi industry within a short period
My reply:
Steve, let me turn this question on you. What is it you are trying to create in a "short period?" What is a short period? What do you think you will accomplish in a short period without any rights? Is the UTCC going to get us a fare increase in a short period? No. In fact they have possibly delayed a fare increase. If you want to know why, just ask and I'll elaborate. What power do you have? Are you anything without the coffers of the AFSC? You are weak and dependent. Wouldn't you rather be strong and independent?
Steve Kim wrote:
,2) and he want only criticise to any of organization without any of action based on his ideology for his business,
My reply:
This is a baseless statement that has its roots with the AFSC. Please don't tell me that you have been brainwashed by their divisive rhetoric.
Steve Kim wrote:
3) He want to block the vision from taxi driver which would not happen to be in reality very soon as he knew.
My reply:
Steve, what exactly is is that you are going to accomplish very soon? You only have a knife and you are in a gunfight. Would you prefer to have the bigger knife the AFSC is giving you (which they can take away at anytime and leave you defenseless) or would you rather ride in a tank?
George Lutfallah
George, This is my reply what you make an answer in my argument.
Steve Kim wrote:
When I read george's article for a more perpect union, I have thinking about the reality regarding the follows.
1. How George know union as his idea to use a word a "perpect". If that was real perpect union, he have to make an answer, why most New York Taxi drivers are belong to NYTWA, instead of union.Can George answer for this matter historical approch with real fact? Can you do it?
My reply:
Steve, New York taxi drivers don't have the rights to form a union, just as we currently don't. The NYTWA is all they have. The NYTWA is not very effective in what they do, no matter how many members they claim to have. New York taxi drivers are no better off than we are, even with all your perceived power of the NYTWA. The NYTWA is a paper tiger. We have the chance to get collective bargaining. That's what the NYTWA claims to want but has failed to get. If you don't believe me, why don't you ask them yourself? You can call Bhairavi Desai at (917)945-7286.
Steve Reply: You make a pointless answer what I ask the above. My question is whether you know the historical turning point to make NYTWA instead of Union which was existed. Why most New York taxidriver involved to NYTWA? Your answer does not mention this matter. If you can not find out the reason, I would like to ask you just shut your mouth. Because without having a knowledge for this matter, how you can say union is perpect in the taxi industry. However, I knew you very well the history for this, but you do not want to mention it because you knew what is wrong of former union in New York. Without this subject clarifying, how you can raise the union subject in here. Do you want to make an any profit through the union process? Why you do not issue what was wrong of union in the taxi industry based upon New York's fact. Your blame for NYTWA is ignorable cause you did not mention any of historical understanding. ( This is one of the evidence from his answer why George do not want any of orgnization in the taxi industry. He just try to ignore any of historical movement for taxi industry in New York, and insult all of taxi driver of New York in his answer.)
2. How George can say the union as perpect without knowing about Chicago Taxi drivers opinion? Did he get any survey for this from the third party's work? How many percentage of taxi driver want to be a independent contractor or not ? I don't think George have this data. Without basic data, how he can say that was a more perpect union? Without any proof, Only he insisted that will be perpect union. I definitely sure that was a dictatorship.So you should provide first the data and proof why it is a perct union 1)which will be from taxi driver's opinion 2) and that data should be from third party, not you and your company. Can you do that? I am sure you will not do it at this moment.
My reply:
Steve, you're missing the point entirely. What we're talking about is the opportunity to get power that we don't already have. Drivers will decide for themselves whether they want a union or not. What we're fighting for is the right to form a union. Don't you think we should have the right to form a union or do you think that we should have to beg for everything we get and make demands without having any muscle?
Steve reply: I did not missing the point what you said in the paper and in this forum. The missing point was done by you. In my personal opinion, we should have a union. But Uion is far from reality in recent period. Without reality, how we can go further? For example, 1)we do not have an any body to steer whole system of union yet. 2) we do not have any official opion from the taxi driver yet ( UTCC working on it now). 3) we do not have any special reason the union is better than non-profit organization based on the history of union. You only make an unverifying issue with no actual plan in the future and vision, including blaming to anyone whenever I meet you. I have a meeting with you three times. Remember? During the meeting, what did you show me. Stil you escape my direct question: Did you have any of survey data for the union? Why you do not contribute for the survey work before? If you really want to support any of taxi drivers movement, you should have an real data for the circumstances. Unfortunately, I can not see it in the dispatcher exepting of medallion price.
Steve Kim wrote:
3. Without any data from taxi driver, and posibility for making a union, Goerge can not provide the perspect for schedule such as length of period, organization, decision maker,etc. If Goerge want to do this, you are not a qualified person because you owned the profit company which will make a Conflit of interest.If he ignore the rule of conflit of interest, that means he want to be a dictator.
My reply:
As already stated, schedules and time tables will be discussed internally. Regarding your belief that I am looking to be a dictator, I have already clearly stated that I would like to see a democratic organization. That means no self-appointed titles. Do you have a problem with that Mr. Vice Chairman?
Steve Reply: I knew I am not a proper person to be Vice Chairman of UTCC. But I do not have self-appoint title in UTCC. And this title is just interim period in UTCC based on Constitution of UTCC. As I said in this forum, I want to be a door man of UTCC. Is that a problem with you? If you do not know the details of UTCC how it will works, you should better zip your mouth.
Democratic processing? If so, you should make an answer my previous question for 'what is vote' in this forum. You did not memntion it. I knew why you don't. Because you knew it what is real democratic processing. But contradictory, you did wrong position of CCO. Still that was democratic processing, tell me what is the voting process based on my question. If you can make any answer which would be understandable, I will take your voice seriously. But you know you can not do that. So, still can you ask me what is democratic process? huh..
Steve Kim wrote:
4. By the way, what he think how long take a time to see that kind of perpect union? 10 years, 20 years.. Tell me how long take a time without any delay. I sure George do not have a idea. If he has a idea for this, I think he will not say a more perpect union cause time period is too long and it will not a perpect union. Can you agree? I hope to see a perpect union in my life time.
My reply:
How long it will take is not known for certain at this time, though I do have a general idea, which will be discussed with our team and disclosed in due time. We're working on this. The alternative is never. Is that what you want?
Steve Reply:
Good Answer, but bad answer from you. Where is your team? What is the meaning of 'our team'. And who will give the power your team will do? How you can say 'our team'? Where is the democratic process which gave the name of 'our team'? I can not see it now. And that will be managed by you and your team? I told you are not qualified person for that matter. Don't you know what is basic requirement for the conflit of interest rule? What do you want it from 'name of our team'? Still you do not understand what is the point.
George? If you have a date with lady, that is love and if other person have a date with lady, that is dirty happening. Do you think like that?
Steve Kim wrote:
The point is: Geroge know it well, but he insist it as perpect union and he want to manage the work for a more perpect union and tell to evrybody. Why?
My reply:
Steve, have you not been given the opportunity to be a part of this? Has that opportunity not been publicly extended to everyone?
Steve Reply: I already part of this, and you already part of this to seperate. That's all.
The other response will be continue..
Continue to reply for George's answer from Steve Kim
Steve Kim wrote:
That answer for this question is 1) he want to not having any of successful organization for taxi industry within a short period
My reply:
Steve, let me turn this question on you. What is it you are trying to create in a "short period?" What is a short period?
Steve Reply: Are you blind person? See what UTCC doing in UTCC voice.
What do you think you will accomplish in a short period without any rights?
Steve Reply: Any rights? Where is any right to block any of taxi driver's movement by you? Who give that power to you?
Is the UTCC going to get us a fare increase in a short period? No. In fact they have possibly delayed a fare increase. If you want to know why, just ask and I'll elaborate.
Steve Reply: Do you remember what you print in your paper who made the petition of fare increase of last year? Where is the person after petition? And what they did after petition. There is Nothing in record after showing up his face in your paper. And now you blame it to UTCC. That's good. But what did you do before and after one dollar surcharge?
But don't waorry because I will not blame you. After one dollar surcharge, UTCC did all of possible way in lawfully accepted, and make a decision what we will do very soon. ( you will see what was it and will be it in UTCC voice at next month) But unfortunately, I did not see you where you are at.
What power do you have? Are you anything without the coffers of the AFSC? You are weak and dependent. Wouldn't you rather be strong and independent?
Steve Reply: Hmm, I have a question why owner of profit company attack to non-profit organization? That's so weird, isn't it?
What power do I have( How so stupid question)? Don't you ever read the constitution of USA and IL? If not, I recomend you to read it right now. Than ask me again 'what power Do I have', if you do not understand it.
George, UTCC member is so strong and independent. You will never understand how strong we are, how so independent we are. Because you never get this kind of opportunity for volunteer activity. All of your action has been related with money in you business, aren't you?
Steve Kim wrote:
,2) and he want only criticise to any of organization without any of action based on his ideology for his business,
My reply:
This is a baseless statement that has its roots with the AFSC. Please don't tell me that you have been brainwashed by their divisive rhetoric.
Steve Reply: Unfortunately, AFSC did not brainwash to me. It was done by you after meeting of 3 times. That meeting was so upset to me. If you want to know what was upset me from the meeting of you, let me know it your willing, then I will explain it very detatails based on your wishes. But I recommend you not asking me the details because you knew it very well. Even if you break the respect of me, but still I want to respect you because I do not want to be the person same as you.
Steve Kim wrote:
3) He want to block the vision from taxi driver which would not happen to be in reality very soon as he knew.
My reply:
Steve, what exactly is is that you are going to accomplish very soon? You only have a knife and you are in a gunfight. Would you prefer to have the bigger knife the AFSC is giving you (which they can take away at anytime and leave you defenseless) or would you rather ride in a tank?
Steve Reply: Knife and gunfight... Hmm. I think you have a knife and use it as pointless. That is so dangerous, but you do not understand what you did with gun. You already fire to all of activitists of taxi industry, and want to control these person without any of personal respect. You already did to me, didn't you? And don't you understand you already ride in a tank?
George, I do not like any of violence's tool. So, do not mixture of my personality and your imaginary which you want to be.
My reply and any of argument will be done by this point because I have not much time and I feel it useless cause he will not change,excepting of what is his wishes for meeting details during the 3 times. But I hope I do not mention it. It will be depend on George's decision. Steve Kim.
