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Re: log book

I had a Burlington Arrow. Which was a kit based on a Triumph Herald When I bought it 10 years ago it was sorn and had been for a few years. The guy that built it had done it inthe 70s or 80s as far as I could ascertain. It was registered as a Triumph Herald Sports. In all honesty the only Herald parts were instruments, front suspension and rear hubs. The other parts were all from different manufacturers excepting the body & chassis which were totally home made

I asked for the background info on the car from dvla - it also had a 2litre engine that was listed on the V5. This information check returned from the dvla, didn't even show when it had changed to 'sports' or when the engine had been changed - so much for their records.

When I put it in for the first mot I was also concerned that they might throw it out for not being correctly registered, but there wasn't a problem. I had it for another 3 or 4 years and sold it when I purchased my Ng 3 years ago. The MOT tester never raised a query

Re: log book

Hi John and Dave,

I would like to reiterate that the "clamp down" at MOT Stations is fairly recent. Prior to 1st April 2012 this probably wouldn't have been an issue.

From this time new regs were introduced, for instance they now check trailer socket circuits and your drivers seat must have three possible positions, max forward and back plus one intermediate position.

I would hate any NG to be taken off the road due to non-compliance of these new MOT regulations. Also when buying one of our cherished cars it must always be "Buyer Beware". I am afraid with ever increasing EU paperwork, legislation it is getter easier to be caught out.

Regards RG.

Re: log book

Mots have always been subjective, back in the 70s I knew which garages were particularly fussy on certain elements and used to pick or avoid the garage according to the problem I may have had (ie mini with rusty sub-frame).

Still the inspectors vary in standard and to prove Robert's theory wrong, my NG was mot'd last month. The seat is fixed in 1 position and there is a trailer socket which I know doesn't work. Mot passed.

Dave

Re: log book

John,

The registration of Kitcars can be an absolute nightmare. Do not expect any help from the DVLA..!! Unless you have very clear and strong evidence (MOT certificates or tax disks with NG on) prior to 1999 I wouldn't buy the car. Even if you have this information it is not guaranteed the DVLA will accept it. I have been trying to get a car registered for about 7 - 8 months now with the DVLA. My experience is that it is very like the Little Britain sketch ' the computer says no!'. You submit paperwork and they say no, not acceptable but won't tell you why or what to do next. When you call them up you can only speak to quite junior staff and there is a department called the policy department they refer to but cannot even talk too. Also there is no appeal process so you have little room for manouvre.

What I have said above is from bitter experience and I have even enlisted the help from my local MP and I am still in limbo. However, you may get away with just running the car as an MG. You may get lucky and find a young mechanic that MOT's the car as an MG as they might not realise exactly what it is but, this is a very big IF..!! You only need a traffic cop that knows about old cars and it could be seized at the roadside...

The other alternative is to put it though the IVA test. As the car you describe was built before the SVA test that came in around 1999, there would be a lot to do to bring it up to current specification to enable it to pass. This could prove to be very expensive and would involve the body off to weld in seat and seat belt mountings amongst other things. If it is a TA then I am not aware of any TA that has passed through the IVA test and I understand this to be unfeasible.

In my opinion unless you are extremely/obsesively determined, have endless patience and deep pockets buy a properly registered car.

I am happy to talk to you further if you would like. Send me a personal email and I will give you my number.

Regards

Paul B

Re: log book

Thank you Paul,

I think you have summed up the "real world" situation in a few well phrased paragraph's, within your own personal experience.

I just didn't want members to be caught out, with the ever increasing legislation from the EU!

Happy NGing!

Re: log book

Hi John.

The warnings are writ clear on this thread!

However, all is not necessarily lost, but you should carry out any investigation BEFORE making the purchase.

It helps that you've known the car for 20 years, but can you prove this?! Does the current owner or the builder have any evidence of when the car was legally on the road as a kit?

One little thing in its favour - the V5 recording it as an 'MG Special Historic'. As far as I know, there was no production MG referred to as this. This HELPS, but won't be enough proof.

V5s and MOTs are 'lazy' - they just say what's enough to have the car 'covered' for the job. I'd suggest there is one area that could be more useful, tho' - old insurance documents.

Surely the owner had it insured as something that made it clear it was a kit, and not a conventional MG?

If you reckon you can get enough proof together to show the car was a 'kit' pre-1993 (I think - is that when the SVA came in?), then with a sympathetic vehicle inspector, you may have a chance.

My ol' Henley had an insurance document from 1992 that referred to a Ford Henley Tourer, I think it was. The V5 said it was a Ford Tourer Convertible or something. With the reg numbers corresponding, it was pretty obvious that they were referring to the same thing, and that it WASN'T a Ford Sierra! Add to that a sympathetic - but a sticking-to-the-rules - inspector, and I was able to have it re-reg'd as a 'Pastiche Henley'.

Bottom line - an inspector will not BEND the rules, but they will be open to EVIDENCE, and it just isn't in their interest to refuse a change for no reason - why would they want to?

I had a real car enthusiast called Neville King come out from Truro DVLA. He did need proper evidence, but he didn't put any false barriers in my way.

I'm assuming the situation hasn't changed with the intro of the IVA, tho'? Hopefully, if you can still prove it was an NG kit car pre-1993, you may be ok. I remember another case from a few years back - the owner of a incorrectly-reg'd NG car had a photo of it picking up a 'best in show' award with a large pre-1993 date on the plaque! That, apparently, did the job

Re: log book

Hi John,

I am still fighting with the DVLA over my car(coming up for nearly a year now). They are an absolute nightmare!! My experience would strongly recommend avoiding contact with the DVLA unless it is about routine stuff (i.e taxing or selling a vehicle).

Donnie has given you some wise advice in his last post but any doubt, the car is best avoided. No matter how attached or knowledge of the car you have. It will involve a virtual rebuild from scratch and deep pockets to get a pre-sva/iva car through the test and a gamble at best to persuade the DVLA to amend the documentation from my bitter experience.

Could I have a photo of the car showing the registration number so I can add it to the records?

Happy to discuss further if you require.

Regrads

Paul