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TA - Question re Registration

I am assuming that folk are aware of the new regulations covering the administration and recording of MOT tests. The DVLA are now recording all information in a database that enables them to tell, for any given car registration, whether the car has a valid road tax licence, valid insurance and MOT. All details are being cross-referenced, and quite rightly so, in order to cut down on fraud and tax/insurance dodgers etc.

When I bought my NG TA a couple of years ago it had been off the road for some time and the first task was to get it renovated, MOT'd and taxed. The registration certificate (V5) showed the car to be an MGB and included the chassis and engine numbers for the original donor vehicle. I had no problem getting a tax disk when putting the car back on the road. The MOT certificate at the time had the car down as an NG and the vehicle ID number on the MOT certificate showed the engine number - this is the only id number visible anywhere on the car. There is no plate or anything with details of the original donor vehicle.

Whilst the MOT procedure was a manual system (ie production of MOT certificates) this has not caused a problem.

Last week I had need to get the car MOT'd again. This time the system is all computerised and begins by logging in all the vehicle details including make, model registration number, chassis number and engine number. The details from the previous MOT certificate were used. This clearly did not match with the records at the DVLA but did not prevent (at the time) the car being passed and a new MOT certificate being printed.

So the car successfully got through its MOT and I have the certificate ( a computer generated A4 document) to prove it. But then last Friday I receive a letter from the DVLA regretting that they cannot update their records with MOT details until I supply accurate details of the car make, model, chassis number, engine number etc. and provide details of whether the MGB has been modified at all. It appears that the initial owner/builder of the TA never had the registration details changed to reflect the fact that it is now a kit car.

My question? Has any other NG owner experienced this yet? Have I now got to "come clean" as it were with the DVLA and get all details amended? I don't consider myself to have a problem - I have a car that I am the rightful owner of, I have a valid road fund licence, valid insuranec and the car has passed its MOT. But in advising the details are not "strictly" correct on the V5 am I opening myself up to all kind of problems? I have heard that the car may need a retrospective SVA test and I fear there is little chance of this model passing such a test.

Help, what do I do?

Chris Nelson (with apologies for the length of this posting!)

Re: TA - Question re Registration

Chris
Beware!! As I understand it as soon as the DVLA become aware that your car is not an MGB as stated on the log book you will be issued with a notice forbidding you to take your car onto the road untill it has completed an SVA test if you do you are liable for prosecution this is why there are a lot of people selling cobras and alike because they are still registered as Rovers etc.This is highly annoying for you because at the time the car was probably built it should of been easy to change the log book which is one of the beauties with NGs because of there singular donor. Good luck (sorry if I've worried you)
Regards
Ed

Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

Ed
It is of great concern - this is exactly what I am fearful of and I would be grateful to hear from anyone who has already been through this situation and come out the other side successfully. I have been advised that if I can provide documentary evidence to the DVLA that the (kit) car was on the road prior to 1998 then I should be able to escape a retrospective SVA test.

I would also be interested to hear from other NG TA owners who can tell me what their V5 shows their cars as.

Chris

Re: Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

just a quick reply to Chris,s question . My TA is registered on the V5 as NG TA , sports, historic vehicle , 2-axle-rigid body .

Re: Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

Chris

I have a TA. Mot due September. All old MOTs and V5 show car to be 1966 MG sports historic vehicle. These documents are all the history I have. The VIN number agrees with the chassis plate which has been retained BUT although I informed the DVLA of an incorrect engine number when I bought the car, I have noticed that this change has not been effected on the V5. The engine number doesn't appear on the current MOT certificate though. Please keep me up to date with your progress. Good Luck!

Re: TA - Question re Registration

Hi Chris
Sorry to hear of your difficulties. This is something that has been on the horizon for years. Many of us have John Hoyle to thank for his efforts in obtaining retrospectively correct details on our V5's. The subject came up in a conversation with the guys at Status I believe, when we first started developing the cars to SVA standard. It was immediately obvious to us that many owners, some of whom were John's customers, and despite following all the correct procedures at the time STILL ended up with incorrect V5’s due to each area’s VRO interpreting the rules differently. Some applying the Q reg. even though enough component points were demonstrated to have been used to enable the owner to keep the original registration number. As we know it is an offence not to have a vehicle correctly descibed on the V5, therefore most of the club members were in trouble sometime in the future!

John contacted the DVLA , explained the situation and to cut a very long story short, negotiated an amnesty for the owners who could be contacted (Yet another benefit of belonging to the NG Owners Club!) to send their V5’s back to a certain kindly lady who would personally arrange for details to be changed. I think Bob Preece’s was the first away? With mine in hot pursuit. To our delight they returned correct in every way! The way open, the poor lady was then swamped by the first wave! That is the history as I remember.

To your immediate problem. I think the only was forward is, as suggested, to gather as much documentary evidence as possible to enable you to compile a file that you can forward to the VRO. This may require you to go back to previous owners and obtain information or letters of confirmation from them. Do explain that you purchased the vehicle in good faith for renovation without being aware of the registration difficulties.

Good luck - David Woolgar

Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

It always pays to read the V5 thoroughly after successfully passing SVA. When I received mine I found that in spite of a correctly completed SVA pass certificate, correctly completed documentation, and a visual inspection at their Inspector's Offices, the DVLA still issued me with a V5A saying I had built an MGB GT !
I suspect the Inspector had been a bit sloppy and filled in some of the blanks after I left them.
It took them a couple of months to sort that little one out, and to be fair, the DVLA left me alone whilst they untangled things their end.
Ah well, all's well that ends well !!!

Re: TA - Question re Registration

I originally kept my ( 1982 )NG TA registered as an MGB ( 1967 )but with changes to the colour and body style. I actually did this before the build was finished, in about 1983 I think. When I started to hear stories about problems with this a few years ago I contacted the DVLA and explained the situation. They contacted the local registration authority office ( I forget the correct name ) and an inspector called to see the car and documentation. I did have the original receipt for the kit and of course the date of the change of details was on file. I did also have the original MGB chassis plate attached to the NG chassis!
The result was that the inspector was satisfied that the car met the requirements for it to retain it's original registration number and it was re-registered as a 'NG TA' 'two axle rigid' historic vehicle.

There had to be evidence, which I had, that the kit car was built before a certain year for this to happen: I forget which year that was though.

I recall; though I am not 100% certain of this, that the inspector said that had my car not met the criteria to retain the original registration, I would not have had to have an SVA but would have been given another registration, a 'Q' I think, and would have lost the 'historic vehicle' status.

I don't know what would happen about the emissions test on the M.O.T. had that happened!

I hope you get yours sorted ....

Nigel L

Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

Many thanks for all your responses. I seem to have managed to get the DVLA off my back for the interim.

The problem was flagged under the new computerised MOT system when the car details, which didn't have a chassis number, did not correspond with the information held by the DVLA. The DVLA still believe the car to be an MGB so when I supplied them with the chassis number from the original MGB they seemed to be happy. I have of course now put this number on the car.

Still leaves me with the problem that the car is not registered correctly as an NG. Still no joy in trying to track the original owner/builder - that is my only hope of getting some documents to prove the car was on the road pre-SVA.

I would still be very interested to hear of any owners whose NG's are still officially registered as MGs. Mail me off-forum if you rather not "go public". Have you had any problems due to the way your cars are registered?

Chris

Re: TA - Question re Registration

Just received this email from Nigel of Findhorn:
Gentlemen,

I have just received word that I would be grateful if you could spread at the NG annual rally this weekend.

It has come via Denzil Brunning of Status. Rather than trying to paraphrase what he said, here it is verbatim:

"DVLA have just come back to me.

It seems as though the vehicle owner should take the V5, any receipts he may have, and several MOT's dated prior to 1998 to his local DVLA office.

They will then update the vehicle record without SVA and will retain the registration number.

It is important that the MOT's clearly identify the vehicle as a kit (NG presumably) so that the office can see that the converted vehicle was actually used prior to the introduction of SVA. They said that the "use" issue is important - receipts for a kit bought before 1998 will not be accepted.

Apparently the local offices have been doing this for some time; a circular was sent to them to re-affirm the official policy recently.

Unfortunately it looks like a "discussion" is taking place between DVLA and VOSA to decide whether this can continue. VOSA think that the cars should be subject to SVA, DVLA think it is unfair to retrospectively apply SVA.

It is possible that VOSA will win the argument, so it is important that your customer moves quickly.

DVLA have said they will inform us if their policy changes; they have also offered to help if your customer experiences difficulties."

So the message is that if anyone has a fistful of old MOT certificates dating prior to the SVA date of 1998 and these do actually identify that the car tested was an NG - as opposed to the donor car in its original state - the DVLA will up-date the registration document to show that the car is an NG.

This is very significant for those people who have had their cars a good long time as it will avoid the need for the SVA test.

My customer in question has a plate in his car saying "Built by Martin Motors in 1988". This seems to be acceptable alternative proof. This is not going to be a universal panacea. For instance we have three cars here which we have bought in. There is no way that I can prove that they were on the road prior to 1998 as NGs so I will have to put them through SVA.

I am sure that there will be significant numbers of NGs out there to which this applies, because they have been around for so long. Please spread the word, as it seems that this may be a last chance. Chris, please put something in the next ChangiNGear. Bob, please could you ask your successor to put something on the owners club web site. We will do likewise. Mon, please.

I hope you have a great weekend. I am sure that Monica would wish you the same - she has gone to Iceland for the w/e, having missed out on a previous occasion to go the Exeter Show - great devotion to duty!!

Best Wishes
Nigel

Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

I hope someone out there can help me.

I like alot of members have a NG TC registered as a MGB V8 Special.

It was originally registered on a Q plate on the original donor chasis number. MOT's show it as a NG

At some time in its history around 1994 judging by the MOT's I have, it was re registered and ended up with an historic plate. The documents now carried the NG chasis number but now the MOT's show it as a MGB V8 Special.

The problem I have is the the DVLA require the earlier MOT's ( proof of use) to show the current chassis number.

Help. I think the car has been owned by Bob Lazenby

If you are out there Bob please ring me 01329 319447 and give me some history on GFF475F

White NG TC V8.

Regards

Paul

The original

Re: Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration

I am hoping, due to the time that's elapsed, that these problems have been sorted out by now? It would be very interesting - and useful - to hear how things have turned out.

John, the engine isn't really a problem since it's a component that is often replaced in many cars during its lifespan - all you'd need to do is fill in the change of details on the V5 and send it off. The VIN number, as you know, is more critical, but you seem to be ok there.

Chris, and others, it struck me that another way to possibly gain some evidence that your car has been in kit form for some time would be to contact the well-known kitcar insurance companies (99% of kitcars are with one of about three companies, I think!) and ask them to check their records for your reg number. There's a chance they'll have a record of it having been insured - obviously as a kit - by the previous owners.

Good luck, and please feed back as to how you are getting on.

Re: TA - Question re Registration - Update

Donnie, and others. Apologies, I suppose an update is well overdue. Despite following several lines of enquiry I have had no luck in finding the original owner/builder of my TA. The insurance one is a good idea - not tried that one yet so will follow that up.

In the meantime the car has recently been through another MOT (May 2006) - it was the previous MT that originally highlighted the problem to me. This time, however, the MOT station entered the car onto the system as an MGB and all was well. So the car is roadworthy, it has an MOT, is insured and taxed (or rather tax-exempt) so all is above board except for the fact it is still on the V5 as an MGB.

Having recently swapped the engine I am now enjoying some exciting motoring. Next project is to mount a slab tank and spare wheel carrier to the rear.

All the best, Chris

Re: Re: TA - Question re Registration - Update

Thanks for the update Chris.

What brought it to mind is that I've just bought a Pastiche Henley which is registered and MOT'd as a 'Ford Convertible/Tourer'. Like you, I should be ok if I keep things that way! However, I also have insurance docs going back to 1997 showing it insured as a Henley kit, so will tackle my local DVLA office about a change once it's back on the road (won't be any time soon.)

The company the guy used was 'Eclipse at LLoyd's', but the mileage declaration was made out to 'Hill House Hammond Ltd'. There are quite a few insurance companies out there, so keep going even after you've tackled the obvious ones!

Good luck.