Hi Chris
Sorry to hear of your difficulties. This is something that has been on the horizon for years. Many of us have John Hoyle to thank for his efforts in obtaining retrospectively correct details on our V5's. The subject came up in a conversation with the guys at Status I believe, when we first started developing the cars to SVA standard. It was immediately obvious to us that many owners, some of whom were John's customers, and despite following all the correct procedures at the time STILL ended up with incorrect V5’s due to each area’s VRO interpreting the rules differently. Some applying the Q reg. even though enough component points were demonstrated to have been used to enable the owner to keep the original registration number. As we know it is an offence not to have a vehicle correctly descibed on the V5, therefore most of the club members were in trouble sometime in the future!

John contacted the DVLA , explained the situation and to cut a very long story short, negotiated an amnesty for the owners who could be contacted (Yet another benefit of belonging to the NG Owners Club!) to send their V5’s back to a certain kindly lady who would personally arrange for details to be changed. I think Bob Preece’s was the first away? With mine in hot pursuit. To our delight they returned correct in every way! The way open, the poor lady was then swamped by the first wave! That is the history as I remember.

To your immediate problem. I think the only was forward is, as suggested, to gather as much documentary evidence as possible to enable you to compile a file that you can forward to the VRO. This may require you to go back to previous owners and obtain information or letters of confirmation from them. Do explain that you purchased the vehicle in good faith for renovation without being aware of the registration difficulties.

Good luck - David Woolgar

It always pays to read the V5 thoroughly after successfully passing SVA. When I received mine I found that in spite of a correctly completed SVA pass certificate, correctly completed documentation, and a visual inspection at their Inspector's Offices, the DVLA still issued me with a V5A saying I had built an MGB GT !
I suspect the Inspector had been a bit sloppy and filled in some of the blanks after I left them.
It took them a couple of months to sort that little one out, and to be fair, the DVLA left me alone whilst they untangled things their end.
Ah well, all's well that ends well !!!

I originally kept my ( 1982 )NG TA registered as an MGB ( 1967 )but with changes to the colour and body style. I actually did this before the build was finished, in about 1983 I think. When I started to hear stories about problems with this a few years ago I contacted the DVLA and explained the situation. They contacted the local registration authority office ( I forget the correct name ) and an inspector called to see the car and documentation. I did have the original receipt for the kit and of course the date of the change of details was on file. I did also have the original MGB chassis plate attached to the NG chassis!
The result was that the inspector was satisfied that the car met the requirements for it to retain it's original registration number and it was re-registered as a 'NG TA' 'two axle rigid' historic vehicle.

There had to be evidence, which I had, that the kit car was built before a certain year for this to happen: I forget which year that was though.

I recall; though I am not 100% certain of this, that the inspector said that had my car not met the criteria to retain the original registration, I would not have had to have an SVA but would have been given another registration, a 'Q' I think, and would have lost the 'historic vehicle' status.

I don't know what would happen about the emissions test on the M.O.T. had that happened!

I hope you get yours sorted ....

Nigel L

Many thanks for all your responses. I seem to have managed to get the DVLA off my back for the interim.

The problem was flagged under the new computerised MOT system when the car details, which didn't have a chassis number, did not correspond with the information held by the DVLA. The DVLA still believe the car to be an MGB so when I supplied them with the chassis number from the original MGB they seemed to be happy. I have of course now put this number on the car.

Still leaves me with the problem that the car is not registered correctly as an NG. Still no joy in trying to track the original owner/builder - that is my only hope of getting some documents to prove the car was on the road pre-SVA.

I would still be very interested to hear of any owners whose NG's are still officially registered as MGs. Mail me off-forum if you rather not "go public". Have you had any problems due to the way your cars are registered?

Chris

Just received this email from Nigel of Findhorn:
Gentlemen,

I have just received word that I would be grateful if you could spread at the NG annual rally this weekend.

It has come via Denzil Brunning of Status. Rather than trying to paraphrase what he said, here it is verbatim:

"DVLA have just come back to me.

It seems as though the vehicle owner should take the V5, any receipts he may have, and several MOT's dated prior to 1998 to his local DVLA office.

They will then update the vehicle record without SVA and will retain the registration number.

It is important that the MOT's clearly identify the vehicle as a kit (NG presumably) so that the office can see that the converted vehicle was actually used prior to the introduction of SVA. They said that the "use" issue is important - receipts for a kit bought before 1998 will not be accepted.

Apparently the local offices have been doing this for some time; a circular was sent to them to re-affirm the official policy recently.

Unfortunately it looks like a "discussion" is taking place between DVLA and VOSA to decide whether this can continue. VOSA think that the cars should be subject to SVA, DVLA think it is unfair to retrospectively apply SVA.

It is possible that VOSA will win the argument, so it is important that your customer moves quickly.

DVLA have said they will inform us if their policy changes; they have also offered to help if your customer experiences difficulties."

So the message is that if anyone has a fistful of old MOT certificates dating prior to the SVA date of 1998 and these do actually identify that the car tested was an NG - as opposed to the donor car in its original state - the DVLA will up-date the registration document to show that the car is an NG.

This is very significant for those people who have had their cars a good long time as it will avoid the need for the SVA test.

My customer in question has a plate in his car saying "Built by Martin Motors in 1988". This seems to be acceptable alternative proof. This is not going to be a universal panacea. For instance we have three cars here which we have bought in. There is no way that I can prove that they were on the road prior to 1998 as NGs so I will have to put them through SVA.

I am sure that there will be significant numbers of NGs out there to which this applies, because they have been around for so long. Please spread the word, as it seems that this may be a last chance. Chris, please put something in the next ChangiNGear. Bob, please could you ask your successor to put something on the owners club web site. We will do likewise. Mon, please.

I hope you have a great weekend. I am sure that Monica would wish you the same - she has gone to Iceland for the w/e, having missed out on a previous occasion to go the Exeter Show - great devotion to duty!!

Best Wishes
Nigel

I hope someone out there can help me.

I like alot of members have a NG TC registered as a MGB V8 Special.

It was originally registered on a Q plate on the original donor chasis number. MOT's show it as a NG

At some time in its history around 1994 judging by the MOT's I have, it was re registered and ended up with an historic plate. The documents now carried the NG chasis number but now the MOT's show it as a MGB V8 Special.

The problem I have is the the DVLA require the earlier MOT's ( proof of use) to show the current chassis number.

Help. I think the car has been owned by Bob Lazenby

If you are out there Bob please ring me 01329 319447 and give me some history on GFF475F

White NG TC V8.

Regards

Paul

The original

I am hoping, due to the time that's elapsed, that these problems have been sorted out by now? It would be very interesting - and useful - to hear how things have turned out.

John, the engine isn't really a problem since it's a component that is often replaced in many cars during its lifespan - all you'd need to do is fill in the change of details on the V5 and send it off. The VIN number, as you know, is more critical, but you seem to be ok there.

Chris, and others, it struck me that another way to possibly gain some evidence that your car has been in kit form for some time would be to contact the well-known kitcar insurance companies (99% of kitcars are with one of about three companies, I think!) and ask them to check their records for your reg number. There's a chance they'll have a record of it having been insured - obviously as a kit - by the previous owners.

Good luck, and please feed back as to how you are getting on.

Donnie, and others. Apologies, I suppose an update is well overdue. Despite following several lines of enquiry I have had no luck in finding the original owner/builder of my TA. The insurance one is a good idea - not tried that one yet so will follow that up.

In the meantime the car has recently been through another MOT (May 2006) - it was the previous MT that originally highlighted the problem to me. This time, however, the MOT station entered the car onto the system as an MGB and all was well. So the car is roadworthy, it has an MOT, is insured and taxed (or rather tax-exempt) so all is above board except for the fact it is still on the V5 as an MGB.

Having recently swapped the engine I am now enjoying some exciting motoring. Next project is to mount a slab tank and spare wheel carrier to the rear.

All the best, Chris

Thanks for the update Chris.

What brought it to mind is that I've just bought a Pastiche Henley which is registered and MOT'd as a 'Ford Convertible/Tourer'. Like you, I should be ok if I keep things that way! However, I also have insurance docs going back to 1997 showing it insured as a Henley kit, so will tackle my local DVLA office about a change once it's back on the road (won't be any time soon.)

The company the guy used was 'Eclipse at LLoyd's', but the mileage declaration was made out to 'Hill House Hammond Ltd'. There are quite a few insurance companies out there, so keep going even after you've tackled the obvious ones!

Good luck.