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Minister, I am responding to the portion of one of your posts where you said the following:
And I am so glad you brought up Ruth 1:16-
And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God:
Inspector12
Ruth was speaking of Jehovah ALONE. It is a well know fact that when pledging there are guys of various religious beliefs. The use of this scripture is completely pluralistic in nature. ANY GOD CAN BE ASSUMED HERE. So Que 1, if Allah is your frat brother’s God, IS HIS GOD YOUR GOD????????????
Min. H
I am glad we agree on the plurality of these organizations. Religious plurality is not a Christian principle.
Inspector12
In response that comment:
I am first and foremost a Christian, and I am an active member of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc. In answer to your question "If my frat brother's God is Allah, is his God my God?"...actually, the answer is Yes. Allah, in Arabic, translates literally to "the God", and refers to the same God that Abraham worshiped. Since he (Abraham) is considered to be the father of monotheistic faiths (Islam, Judaism, and Christianity), the accepted school of thought is that the early followers of each of these faiths worshiped the same God.
Min. H
Please show proof of this as it is obvious that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity accepted this school of thought. The Bible certainly does not accept this school of thought. Islam certainly does not accept many tenets of Judaism and Christianity.
Inspector12
Your post assumes that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.
Min. H
This is no assumption. Does Allah claim to have a Son in whom he is well pleased? Does Jehovah? So either this God who you claim to be the same is lying to different groups of people or that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are liars. Only one can be true, both wrong, but both statements cannot be true. You make the choice.
Inspector12
They (We) do. They just don't believe the same things about that ONE GOD. I won't insult your intelligence by explaining to a minister the differences between Christian and Muslim beliefs. I will say this though, that the core difference between Christians and Muslims is the same as the difference between Christians and Jews...in that neither Jews nor Muslims recognize the Trinity, though they both recognize Jesus as important. SO, does your question have any relevance if it is changed to this...If Elohim is your frat brother's God, is his God your God??
Min. H
Not really, he has to be my God to make it so. But the problem for the person who professes Christianity who believes such a lie is this question, am I a believer in the ONLY TRUE GOD, Jesus Christ, if I believe that Allah and Jehovah are the same God?
Thanks for posting, and I hope this dialogue has helped you.
Im considering joining Omega Psi Phi but dont know if I should join or not, if anyone has a copy of the ritual please email it it me Thanks JavasMccall@gmail.com
Minister H, you made the following statement in your response to me:
This is no assumption. Does Allah claim to have a Son in whom he is well pleased? Does Jehovah? So either this God who you claim to be the same is lying to different groups of people or that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are liars. Only one can be true, both wrong, but both statements cannot be true. You make the choice.
Here is a question that leads to what I think is your confusion (and the confusion of many). By what do Arabic Christians call God? They call him Allah, because Allah is the word in their language that means "God". What about Hispanic Christians? I'm sure they use Dios instead of "God".
Do you think Abraham called God by the name "God"? Certainly not. English wasn't spoken back then. Elohim or El Shaddai, which were probably the names used during his time, translate to "God" and "God Almighty" respectively.
We (Christians) associate the term/name "Allah" with Islam because Islam was founded by Muhammad, an Arabic-speaking descendant of Ishmael. Ishmael is recognized in the Bible as the eldest son of Abraham, born of Hagar, the maidservant to Sarah. Obviously the split starts there, so without a long, drawn out history lesson, understand that the only God Ishmael knew was that of his father Abraham (our God). Muslims acknowledge that their God is the same God Abraham serves. In fact, they believe that Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Ishmael on the altar, not Issac. Of course, we believe that to be false, but the point there is to offer anecdotal evidence that the God of Abraham is also theirs.
Minister, you also made this statement:
This is no assumption. Does Allah claim to have a Son in whom he is well pleased? Does Jehovah? So either this God who you claim to be the same is lying to different groups of people or that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are liars. Only one can be true, both wrong, but both statements cannot be true. You make the choice.
The answer is yes...Just because Muslims and Jews don't believe it doesn't make it so. Once again, just to beat a dead horse, Allah is the Arabic term for God; and if it is the same God that Abraham followed (and it is), then yes, El Shaddai/God Almighty/Allah/Jehovah did have a Son in whom He is well pleased. God isn't lying to any group of people. God is just being God. God IS! You are right, either God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one, or they are not. I believe they are indeed one, which makes me Christian. Muslims and Jews do not, which in our minds make them wrong. But just because they are wrong about this most important aspect of our Lord does not mean that they worship a different god.
Minister, with all due respect, we believe our God, the God of Abraham, has a Son, who is seated at His right hand. Muslims believe that the God of Abraham has no Son. He is the same God. You say that "Allah" does not have the same character, personality, nature and attributes as the God of the Bible. You are wrong. The nature and attributes are indeed more than similar, but who assigned those attributes anyway? Men assigned those attributes according to their belief. The attribute that ties them together is what I mentioned in my second sentence...He is the God of Abraham. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all lay claim to this. What each group believes about Him is different (Judaism and Islam hold beliefs that are more similar to each other than to Christianity). Another important attribute is that Muslims do recognize Jesus to be a significant figure in their faith. They just don't recognize him as God's Son.
According to scholars, 1 John 2:21, (actually all of 1 John), was written in defense of our belief that Christ was born of the flesh, and that his death was atonement for our sins. Some who were leaders in the Church during Jesus' earthly lifetime, and just afterwards did not believe that the Christ was born of the flesh. The text was meant to bolster the beliefs that have become the cornerstone of our faith as Christians. We have logically expanded the meaning of the text to include followers of other faiths (Abrahamic as well as pagan/polytheistic religions). Neither Muslims nor Jews are the devil, nor the anti-Christ (although the anti-Christ could indeed come from either of these groups). They just don't know the Truth about the God they serve.
Allah is not "pre-Arabic"...it is pre-Islamic, and yes, it literally translates to One God. In the Islamic context (and to Arab Christians too), it means "The One God". Islam is a monotheistic religion and has never had more than one god...only God (Allah in Arabic). They believe that God has many names, and for that matter, we Christians refer to him by several names. You do realize that "God" is not his name, right? Well...neither is it Allah. God and Allah are "names" used to refer to "the God of Abraham".
Well, Minister...I was trying to remain respectful while making my point, but since you think you are "forcing me to take sides on an issue of truth", I'll respond. As I said in my last post, they (muslims) don't know the Truth about the God they serve. I believe the following: That God has a Son, Jesus, who was born of the flesh. He was crucified, and died for the sins of man. He was resurrected three days after his execution, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. I believe in the Trinity, God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You have called me out really for no reason...much in the same way wounded animals attack when cornered, even if the person in front of them is trying to help them. I know who my God is, and I am secure not only in my Christianity, but most importantly, in my salvation.
You said "Jesus is God", which again, is the basis of our Christian belief, but you left out two very important words. You left out "We believe". We cannot prove that Jesus is God, otherwise there would be no need for the word "faith". The definition of "faith" is " the firm belief in something for which there is no proof."
You proved my point when you said "Both scriptures are saying DIFFERENT things about one person." That is correct, and has been my point all along. The Christian belief is that Jesus is God's son; the Muslim belief is that God has no son. The point though, proven through simple research, is that God is the same deity for both groups...the ONLY God.
This is a matter of faith, Minister H, and what groups of people believe about God. There is no lie, and no one is suggesting that God is lying, especially me. That is ridiculous, and for you to make that stretch shows just how unreasonable you are.
As for the "RED HERRING"... what kind of minister are you?? John felt it important enough to devote an entire gospel to insuring the people of his time understood who Jesus was. Especially since many people of his time considered Jesus to merely be a prophet. Those people worshiped God, but did not recognize that Jesus was God in the flesh. So...my point that "Muslims do recognize Jesus to be a significant figure in their faith." was not a cop out. It was an important point that highlighted an attribute that tied Christianity to Islam. Christians and Muslims both believe that Jesus descended from Abraham. That whole point went back to your question of " if I am a Christian, and my brother's God is Allah, is his God my God? Again, according to the writings of both the Bible and the Qur'an, and the lineage of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael, Muhammed, and Jesus...the answer is yes.
To your last question.
Truth Claim #1- God has no Son
Truth Claim #2- God has a Son
Either 1 or 2 is correct, or they're both wrong. So which is TRUE Inspector12?
I believe #2 - God has a Son.
Now, Minister H...can you prove it??? No, you can't. That is why you can't say it is fact. It is what we believe.
One question, are you made or paper?
I'm absolutely amazed to see this rubbish site still in existence.....
Have you published to Mason's secrets, too.....? No, I DON'T want them....!
Some of the people on here seem to have borderline personality disorders, low self esteem and distorted views of Christianity. None of what you all say to contradict the information about Omega Psi Phi will have any merit on diminishing it's growth, popularity or public service. You might as well tell the nation no to take an oath to their craft. Attorneys, Doctors, Military, presidents and the list goes on who take oaths and pledge allegiance to uphold the principles of their office/organization. They are not denouncing the diety and God of all Gods, the creator of the heavens and the earth, nor have they made the organization their God(s).
Being bitter is lower than being delusional. Brothers and non brothers reading this should use intelligence and common sense to see through those who chose to vilify this or any organization only following its creed to uphold the policy and procedures of the organization, not replace our God.
I read the doctrine of the KKK and if I were ignorant, I'd probably believe that I am truly inferior to them and that God hates all other races. If you want to expose an organization for misrepresenting Gods word, spend your time there and stop being like all other ignorant and bitter crabs in a barrel. Do confuse an allegiance or oath with a declaration for a Lord and Savior. Semantics my brothers. Get a thesaurus or dictionary if you must.
Tony D
Some of the people on here seem to have borderline personality disorders, low self esteem and distorted views of Christianity. None of what you all say to contradict the information about Omega Psi Phi will have any merit on diminishing it's growth, popularity or public service.
Min. H
Omega doesn't need any help to diminish its public service. What public service? As for its popularity, No so popular either. Now if you want to speak to its growth, Members vs. Men is not really working the way you guys intended. And based on your comment, you don't have a good understanding of it either.
Tony D
You might as well tell the nation no to take an oath to their craft. Attorneys, Doctors, Military, presidents and the list goes on who take oaths and pledge allegiance to uphold the principles of their office/organization. They are not denouncing the diety and God of all Gods, the creator of the heavens and the earth, nor have they made the organization their God(s).
Min. H
See how weak you are. You have to run to other things to make what you do appear to be okay. Why don't you post your oath up here and see if it stands up to Biblical Muster?
In whose name do Muslims in your organization swear an oath to?
Tony D
Being bitter is lower than being delusional. Brothers and non brothers reading this should use intelligence and common sense to see through those who chose to vilify this or any organization only following its creed to uphold the policy and procedures of the organization, not replace our God.
Min. H
That's a lie, and you know it. Who is the God of Omega? The words to, for, and of Omega are mentioned over 40 times in the ritual. Why is II Timothy 2:3 misquoted, leaving out Jesus ON PURPOSE? I could go on and on.
Tony D
I read the doctrine of the KKK and if I were ignorant, I'd probably believe that I am truly inferior to them and that God hates all other races. If you want to expose an organization for misrepresenting Gods word, spend your time there and stop being like all other ignorant and bitter crabs in a barrel. Do confuse an allegiance or oath with a declaration for a Lord and Savior. Semantics my brothers. Get a thesaurus or dictionary if you must.
Min. H
Stop beating your fellow black men from head to toe, just like the KKK did. Hypocrite!!
Whoever your are, you need to get a life. Why are you so obsessed with the Ques? You didnt make it? I am An Omega. Its funny that stupid mfer's like you spend their lives concerning themselves with other folks business. What are you a minister of? Minister of bull****. Get a life dude. You fake ass ministers kill me with passing judgement. You should know that judgement is not the job for people it's reserved for God. But you are a so called minister you should know that. So in closing go tell your lies to another congregation of idiots!
Smh...somebody has a lot of free time. Trying to "expose" frats and sororities for what reason again? Why don't you focus your attention on the real enemies?
Go to sleep
You're the one up at 0203 in the morning, LOL. And my site and ministry, which was spawned by someone before me. At that time, there was only one book about the negative aspects of GLO's. I believe there are 5 or 6 now. There are plenty of websites, facebook groups, etc. out there now. My work, though never done has taken a step aside to all the others out there. That was my prayer and wish.